Friendly fire incident!

[Huggyu2]

I've never been a "shooter", where I've had to work the ROE, but a few things strike me as significant:
- the FAC tells the at least twice that there are no friendlies in the area; is the FAC taking blame?
- did the FAC get his info from HQ? If so, were they negligent?
- if no one thought there were friendlies there, did the British unit commander violate procedures by not coordinating his unit's movements? If so, he's certainly culpable.

 

[Squanto]

What were the British doing in a Kill Box?

The last entry, touched on this point. A good way to get zapped is for a ground convoy to wander into a kill box. So I don't blame the A-10 guys at all. They were told that there are no friendlies in their A.O....Those guys (A-10) are out for bear anyway. The air/ground FAC has cleared them in. They (FACs) should be the filter here. Only way to reduce Blue on Blue is to not go to War in the first place.

 

[McGillicutty]

Sounds like Manilla Hotel was a JTAC with pretty low SA. He mostly likely received the brunt of the punishment. That being said, the first gun run was made without the magic words from Manilla Hotel. Combine that with firing on coalition marking panels and it goes without saying the pilots had a significant role in the fratricide.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The last entry, touched on this point. A good way to get zapped is for a ground convoy to wander into a kill box. So I don't blame the A-10 guys at all.

Huh? The Hogs were there...as are all air assets, to support the ground forces, not kill them. The ultimate burden rests on the guys behind the trigger to ensure the guys they're shooting are bad guys. If there are ANY Brit tanks or vehicle in your AO, and you're a driver who specializes in killing same...recce is kinda important.

They were told that there are no friendlies in their A.O....Those guys (A-10) are out for bear anyway.

Right. I also understand they were told not to shoot guys with orange panels. The tape has some reference to orange.

The air/ground FAC has cleared them in. They (FACs) should be the filter here. Only way to reduce Blue on Blue is to not go to War in the first place.

Huh? I don't hear a "cleared hot" or "clear to fire" on the tape. Did I miss it?

 

[SIG600]

RJP you sound about as intelligent (and educate on the matter) as DaveGriffin. You two been hanging out swapping "war" stories?

 

[JungleJett]

This has been happening since the first spear was thrown in anger and it will continue to happen. While technology can minimize the opportunity for this to happen, it cannot stop it. Something about the fog of war. It is tragic nonetheless and I feel for the Brit soldier, his comrades and for his family and friends. I also feel for the pilots of these Hogs. They did not strap on that airplane that day hoping to kill some friendlies. What you heard in the cockpit was only a minuscule part of what they were thinking and feeling. With the release of this film, they are having to relive that horrible day and the family of the KIA British soldier are seeing how their son died. Not something I would want to see.

War is hell......

 

[SIG600]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a72b979de

This isn't the HUD from the frat, but I thought it's a pretty good example of being sharp.

Another video that shouldn't be on the internet... I won't say why, but a huge security violation none the less.

 

[RJP]

Occam's said it correctly.

Anyone that thinks this is acceptable is wrong. What kind of intel did those hog guys get on the ground? Shouldn't an O-4 and an O-5 KNOW that orange panels meant friendlies? Yes, they should have.

I still believe that this is a problem of taking reserve guys that have only seen the local range for the past 20 years and dropping them into a combat situation. How many guard units go to red flag? Especially hogs. Are they even invited? Many of these guys are part-time and fly airlines for a living. It's a hobby for some. Now, suddenly, they're thrown into combat and it seems that some of them don't want to RTB with any ordinance.

If they would have taken their time, talked about it to each other a little more in-depth, coordinated with the ground FAC and ABCCC, they MIGHT not have strafed the Brits. Instead, they were in a hurry because they were low on gas and the Lt.Col was determined he was going to attack that column.

Believe what you believe. If you pull the trigger or push the button and kill friendlies, YOU'VE F-D UP.

Thanks for the orange post. It sticks out like dog balls, yeah?

 

[Hobit]

Lots of monday morning quarterbacks......

 

[Der Kommissar]

Did they pull the trigger and kill friendlies? Yes. Seems pretty clear cut to me.