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Fresh, forward thinking idea on pilot retirements...

MILF Hunter

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People I know that retired from Union Pacific Rail Road never paid social security in their lives. It all went to the Railroad Retirement Board. The Board is a fully funded pension. I don't want to type all the details but it is an excellent program.

I always wondered why a system like this was never available to airline pilots.
 

LJ45

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ok, so they do this and in a few years Obama will be firing the CEO and taking control. Isn't that pretty much what happen to the Automakers?
 

dooork

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ok, so they do this and in a few years Obama will be firing the CEO and taking control. Isn't that pretty much what happen to the Automakers?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Anyway...this is probably the most important and relevant post I have ever read on this or any other site. Thank you for sharing....I'm in.
This needs the attention of every airline pilot (union or not) group out there.
 

TommyG

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GM ran itself into the ground. Unions or not. And as far as the CEO getting fired, wah to him a 23mil pension. When the UNION workers get laid off see how much of a pension they get.
 

pianoman

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ok, so they do this and in a few years Obama will be firing the CEO and taking control. Isn't that pretty much what happen to the Automakers?

If you don't want gubment money, then do whatever you want. If you come whining to the Fed for tax dollars, then maybe yeah the guy who presided over the last 10 years as the company nose-dove should probably go.
 

LJ45

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I would like to retract my statement, being it is totally lame

:erm:
 

MECH

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ok, so they do this and in a few years Obama will be firing the CEO and taking control. Isn't that pretty much what happen to the Automakers?

Wow!! He will have to fire a few more to catch up to President Bush. President Bush fired the CEO's of Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.

But I don't know what this has to do with the RRB.
 

AC560

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Here is a concept fund your own pension through ALPA. Give ALPA of which the officials of you elect the right to collect, manage, and disperse your retirement.

Seems to work for the Teamsters. Me personally though I will stick with my 401K and take my chances.

Just remember in all things you are a victim not an active participant in your own destiny.
 

clippyrip

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A friend of the family is a senior VP at Alaska Airlines and he told me he wanted to eliminate the RLA. He said it ties everyones hands in regards to negotiations. It made me think that if he was arguing against it then I should do the opposite. Somehow, I don't see how eliminating the RLA could be beneficial for both groups. If he(management) was arguing to eliminate it then it seems like pilots would not share the same sentiment.


I will caveat this with I don't know sh!t about the RLA.
 
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Fubijaakr

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I absolutely support this idea. In fact, it is a shame that someone didn't think of this when the airlines were placed under the RLA in the first place.

My father-in-law is a retired engineer and former General Chairman of the BLA. I do his taxes. RRB is the single most secure pension in this country today.
 

hindsight2020

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Here is a concept fund your own pension through ALPA. Give ALPA of which the officials of you elect the right to collect, manage, and disperse your retirement.

Seems to work for the Teamsters. Me personally though I will stick with my 401K and take my chances.

Just remember in all things you are a victim not an active participant in your own destiny.


I respect your self-reliant bravado in pursuing retirement alone and unafraid on a 401K, but good luck retiring on that. I don't particularly enjoy the prospect of living like a monk for my entire productive life to come up short anyways, or having to one day tell the kids 'hey go to grandpa for college, I'm trying to keep me and mom from living under the bridge and he's the one with the pension'.

401Ks are a ticking time bomb, most people fully vested on 401K-only retirement vehicles are late Gen X and younger, these folks are gonna get hit with no Social Security and an underfunded 401K come retirment time. The average balance of 401Ks country wide is less than 100Gs....these people are hosed, and the boomers are gonna bankrupt Social Security, so the latter suggestion is just facetious.

Compare that to a defined benefit plan for life. Talk to federal employees who retired under CSRS what they think of the current FERS retirement (which is TSP heavy). yeah defined contribution is soooooo much better, yeah right, gimme a break..

Lack of pensions is one of the major drawbacks I find in the present state of the profession, I think adopting a measure such as the RRB would go a long way towards restoring the career's prospects. 401Ks are a race to the bottom, the myth of "the market always goes up" has been debunk, if you still believe the stock market will carry you to retirement and beat your life expectancy simultaneously I got a bridge to nowhere to sell you, pensions are the way to go and the boomers know it (and retire ALREADY!... I digress)

Kudos to the CAL guys for giving it the ol' college try...
 

MILF Hunter

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Here is a concept fund your own pension through ALPA. Give ALPA of which the officials of you elect the right to collect, manage, and disperse your retirement.

Seems to work for the Teamsters. Me personally though I will stick with my 401K and take my chances.

Just remember in all things you are a victim not an active participant in your own destiny.


The railroad union has nothing to do with the railroad retirement board. The membership doesnt collect and distribute funds. I would love to go to work knowing one day I could retire regardless of how the market performs. I fly with guys approaching 60 and have lost 30% of their nest egg. Even if they fly to 65 they won't make back the difference.

When the C&NW (Chicago and North Western) and MO-PAC (Missouri Pacific Railroads) were bought out and picked apart the employees were still able to retire from other railroads. I have a friend that was MO-PAC, ended up retiring from the Union Pacific, he's chilling on his boat right now. He doesnt give a sh!t what the dow is doing.

This has nothing to do with Obama, Teamsters, or ALPA. Believe me I dont like any of them either, but I think this is a great program. Please look into this before you jump to the conclusion that its the man coming to get you.

Is your airline going to be around for another 30 years?
 

Mikes Apartment

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This has nothing to do with Obama, Teamsters, or ALPA. Believe me I dont like any of them either, but I think this is a great program. Please look into this before you jump to the conclusion that its the man coming to get you.
quote]

I totally hear you MILF Hunter. You da man!!!
 

txpilottj

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This is one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. I have an uncle who retired from a long career with Conrail....Railroad management is as ruthless as the airline biz, but he's never had to worry one bit about his retirement because its untouchable. Just like previous posters have said, he's living large right now and not worried about 401Ks & stocks etc...
 

HoursHore

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This might work if SS was used for what it was intended, retirement security. Buts its a giant slush fund for all types of government spending, and they are not going to let a group of workers out of it. Everyone would try to opt out of it then.
 

txpilottj

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Good point, but there's one small detail you overlooked. We are the only group of workers besides the railroads covered by the RLA. The rest can kick and scream all they want but they don't have that (in this limited case) advantage.
 

EMBpilot

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Well, if you ever have a "privilege" to fly with Continental scabs or those poor guys who raised gear for them for 15 years you'll be told many times that airline pilots shouldn't have any retirement at all.

Airline pilots make enough money as it is. And if you are smart you could be in the left seat after a year or so. And then if you pick up some open time up to 95 hours or so every other month and fly as FO if the company needs you to life will be really good. :)
 

HoursHore

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Good point, but there's one small detail you overlooked. We are the only group of workers besides the railroads covered by the RLA. The rest can kick and scream all they want but they don't have that (in this limited case) advantage.

I am not saying the argument is not valid.

I am saying a government that just approved trillions of new spending and is facing an already looming SS shortfall, (Just read you SS statement, it says right on there they cannot meet projected obligations.) will not let any one out of paying the payroll tax. Heck, they might pass retroactive legislation mandating railroad workers start paying into Social Security.

Personally, I was surprised that Bush's proposal for privatizing part of Social Security didn't get more traction. I realize that AARP is a strong lobby, but I would think everyone under the age of 40 would of rallied behind it. Sucks we don't have a group lobbying for us.
 
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