Freedumb Air, Just don't do it!!

[AAflyer]

timebuilder,

This is a battle in a long war, I would not be so quick to say SWA will be leading the pack in pilot pay (AND BENEFITS).One only needs to look at history,it is ever changing and NO ONE can predict the future, you would be a fool to do so (or very rich). Some sumos have fallen, others are currently on Jenny Craig, and taking Kung Fu. It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

AAflyer

 

[Timebuilder]

That's funny, and I needed a laugh!

I didn't mean to suggest that Southwest would necessarily LEAD in pay and benefits. I meant that their type of labor arrangement and the level of pilot compensation could very likely become the norm in the next few years. Soutwest is clearly emerging as the Royce Gracie of the field, and as BJJ fighter will tell you, brazilian Jiu Jitsu is more effective than Gung Fu, shaolin or otherwise.

Sorry for the martial arts metaphor. Southwest is kicking hiney, and it looks as though that formula will become a leading force in our industry.

Just a guess...

 

[AAflyer]

Timebuilder,

I guess the student has become the teacher, I have lots to learn...grasshopper!!! HA HA..

I see what you say, regardless it should be a fun show to watch.

AAflyer

 

[TSA ERJ]

I agree with doubleeagle140,
I don't know anything about Eagle's pay rates, but I would be willing to bet TSA and CHQ's contracts match or surpass Eagle's in most areas. There is more to running an operation less expensively than just pilot pay.

 

[rightrudder]

I don't think there is such a thing as a 4th year ERJ145 Ca at Eagle. I bet the pilots at Eagle wish there were.

 

[liljetdriver]

I thought I may shed a little light on the topic of CHQ undercutting Eagle. I can understand the frustration of Eagle drivers in the way AMR continues to bend them over. BOHICA must be embroidered on their flight cases. I'm done listening to the rhetoric that the only reason CHQ is flying these routes is because we are undercutting scabs. Here are some facts:

CHQ contract signed OCT '98
4th year captain EMB-145 = $55.68
top out year 15 $76.43

AAE contract signed SEP '97
4th year captain EMB-145 = $51.08
top out year 18 $72.65

This information is from V1rotate.com. There is a download section with contracts from almost any airline. Some new contracts are not yet updated so my information from Eagle is only as good as that download. If anyone from Eagle cares to dispute it, this forum is available to do so. The CHQ info is valid since I have a contract in my flight bag. I didn't copy the Eagle F/O rates. They may or may not be better. Our F/Os like everywhere else in the regional industry, are underpaid. A point we intend to correct with a new contract. Which was amendable last OCT. Our MEC is making progress every day with our new contract and I doubt anything less than a 10% raise will be sent to the group for a vote. Eagle is stuck with their abomination for what, 8-9 more years. Sorry guys, you lowered the bar yourselves.

AMR is in business with CHQ for one reason. We perform. 99.1% departures and 80-85% within A'14 consistantly. I can't speak for Eagle but read USA Today for a week. Tell me which airline is consitantly rated worse for complaints, cancellations, lost bags etc. As TWE we provided dependable feed service for TWA. AMR simply took us along for the ride with all the other TWA assets. AS far as all this reverse code-share crap, how is this CHQ's fault. We continue to provide the service we are contracted to do.

Like I said before, what AMR has done in the past to its pilot groups is horrendous. That's why I like working at CHQ. We can grow through any of our code shares. If AMR tries to whipsaw us, fine. We will take our jets, options, and talented pilots and find new places to put them. Be it US Airways, American West or Delta. You couldn't pay me enough to work for a wholly-owned regional carrier. You guys have no leverage at all with the hand that feeds you.

 

[AAflyer]

The ONLY reason you are getting jets is to circumvent the ASM cap that Eagle is operating under. It has nothing to do with your on-time departures. AMR is getting creative with code-shares, and non-code-shares but flight schedules matching up.

AMR always has a bottom line,and they will do anything to pinch a penny.

AAflyer

 

[FlyinBrian]

AMR simply took us along for the ride with all the other TWA assets.

You left out the words "in violotaion of their contract with American Eagle's pilots,"

I have said over and over again that I don't hold your pilots responsible. But the agreement between AMR and your companies is illegal, and violates our contract. It's not your fault, but it's not your flying. AMR should work on having its own companies perform, and not illegally write its own people off and dump them on the street while helping TSA and CHQ grow.

 

[metrodriver]

I have to agree with flying Brian. I'm also furloughed (already before sept11), and any flying job would be better than the $8.- /hr I make now. Maybe the same pay, but at least I would be doing what I love and studied for. The bad thing of this whole RJ business is that airlines are trying to get away with this as a way to cut cost. Filling up the sky and the airports is not going to help the "passenger convenience" like the airlines are saying, you just create more gridlock. And as long as there are to many pilots and not enough airplanes, folks like Ornstein can get away with paying pilots a burgerflipper salary. If we ever have a situation where there are not enough pilots anymore to fly these rj's, companies like these will start to hurt real fast. Till then....... hopefully someone will take a look at my resume and say hey, this guy deserves a job, got a lot of time, eventhough he hasn't flown for a while.
(the standard excuse from the likes of asa,comair, skywest ,...).

 

[tintube]

"I have inquired about 50 seat RJ pay and have been told that Mesa's senior RJ Captains can make over $80K at the present. "
----------
- do not think to many Capts at Mesa makes that kind of money, mabe not even a senior one( but I might be wrong on that one ).
Belive the average Capt pulls inn in the upper 50ks / lower 60ks.
The problem is that there is no WX or MX pay-protection and no duty rig.

The payscale for Freedom seems to be held kind of "hidden" and hard to get hold on. The one time I read Freedoms contract I also noticed that it stated that management has authority to change any part of it by their discretion.............

This is from one site:
Eagle's pay ( on 70 seaters ) is $2-$5 per hour less than industry average ( for 70 seater ) , and Freedom's pay ( including 90 seater, I belive, ) 1%-3% less than that.

-So they will be flying a 90 seater for a few lousy % higher than the average 50 seater scale, if I read this correct.