Freedomb all ready taking Mesa flights

[D8drvr]

DruDown,

Having a job in the field of your choice is a right we all have because we live in this great country. Which company we work for is also our choice. But the fact is, we MUST have money to LIVE (pay rent, buy food, etc.). Getting paid is NOT a moot point. I disagree with your idea that I should not have food or a place to live because it might prevent a MESA pilot from enjoying a better life. Does he care about me? If he does, then he can send me his paycheck and I will not consider Freedom. Until that time, I will persue all options.

Also, we are not all unhappy with where we work. Grow up.

 

[Caveman]

DruDown wrote:

"Truthfully, and I think we all know this, everyone hates their company, everyone has problems with management, scheduling, etc. It is no different anywhere else, it's just frame of reference. Even people at SkyWest are unhappy. They are starting to find out how important representation and protection are as their management is beginning to "aviod" issues as they come up. Don't let anyone fool you, it's the same anywhere. We are all undervalued, underappreciated, and overworked - the only way changes will be made is to stick together, fight together, and not continue to allow selfish, self-centered, spineless pilots obtain jobs in our industry, or let the ego of managements try to circumvent the system."

I strongly disagree with your assertion that it sucks everywhere. I have a good job with a stable company that treats me fairly and abides by our contract. I know lots of other pilots that also appreciate the company they work for.

Management is not the evil empire. Some of them are terrible and the performance of their companies suffer because of it. There are plenty of decent CEO's out there trying to balance the conflicting goals of making money for their stockholders while trying to hire and keep the best employees available. If you work for a company that treats employees like dirt leave and find a better job. To stay and be treated like crud is just as bad as working for crappy wages. It hurts you and it degrades the profession.

 

[mckpickle]

Favor granted. I not only never want to work for a unionized carrier but I never want to work for any carrier. I'd be happier taking my retirement and playing golf everyday than working with whiny little union biotches. I graduated from Jr. High more than 20 years ago, I don't need to go back regarless of how much I get paid.

The ironic thing is that the name of the airline is Freedom. Here we are in a country that proclaims freedom around the world and a childish union is trying to block an airline from competing in an open market because it doesn't approve of management for whatever stupid reason. It's called capitalism. I suggest you get used to it because I, along with several million other great Americans are willing to put our lives on the line to ensure it's here to stay.

So don't worry about ever having to share a cockpit with me because my kind of airplanes only have one seat. If I ever have the urge to fly heavy airplanes (and I doubt I will), I'll do it in the non-union military.

I think met you, were you the hemeroid on my a$$ last week.

 

[mckpickle]

Call em scabs, scum bumbs, pricks, I dont care what. But they will NEVER ride on my jumpseat.

 

[DruDown]

D8,
I'm not telling you not to feed your family or take a check, I'm just insisting you do it in an inteligent, well thought out manner, without detriment to the industry you have chosen to work in. We have all CHOSEN this industry, and isn't it better to work together to fix the problems than run to quickest band-aid and let the vicious cycle start all over again. Doing the right thing is rarely the easy way out.

And point of clarification, when I state that all companines are horrible, I am making a generalization, based off of what we all read here, we read from ALPA, I hear in the cockpits of the planes I jumpseat in and many other areas - the majority of the pilots out there have gripes with their companies, and as pilots we like to embelish, thus we "hate" our companies. I am sorry for the poor termanology, but I think you know what I mean.

 

[skybuda]

Did JO really say this:

"Mesa will not shut down. We will become a very successful leasing company. That issue was discussed and fully supported by the Board at last week's meeting. Do not underestimate our resolve to do the right thing. And being held hostage is not the "American way" as I know it."

Does this mean that he is wet leasing out the 700 right and those dump ass that went to freedom are really not out on a LOA right now.

I sure hope so because that would be a huge TDY misaward and one hell of a greviance for the unoin. Since they went all the way though the mesa seniorty list to find there 50 or so that would mean that eveyone on the mesa list should be getting a nice fat check. Or maybe we could just pone that off for one hell of a contract.

SB

 

[eaglefly]

Congratulations D8drvr, you've just sold out to the SAME philospohy that EAL 's, UAL's and CAL's scabs used to justify crossing those respective picket lines.

Whether you realize it or not, you've already psycologically become a scab. Now you just need a picket line to impliment your philosophy.

Never before in the history of the once honorable profession of airline flying has the future been clogged with so many up-and-coming "me first" artisits.

Bleak indeed.

 

[D8drvr]

DruDown and eaglefly,

Let me get this straight. If I'm OUT OF WORK, and NOT flying or employed by Freedom Airlines I CAN have an effect on the condition of the airline industry as a whole. But as soon a I TAKE a job with Freedom, or an airline like it, then I am bringing the industry down. I guess aviation is the only industry that can be influenced by NOT working in it.

As for being a scab. I'm a 10 year ALPA member. I would never cross a picket line. But if you think I would be unemployed rather that work for a start up company (because that is all that Freedom is) your crazy. I guess the guys at JetBlue are scabs to your line of thinking.

 

[skybuda]

I almost forgot, Did United duing the nogations with the pilots say hay lets start a new airline. We have blue airplanes so lets call it Jet Blue. No I dont think so. If JO wanted to start a new upstart airline, key word NEW,then all the power to him. Just don't uses my and evey other Mesa employees money to fund his eago.

This was not a issue of wanting to start a new airline as a upstart, but a way to gain pressure on the unoin. If you want, email him and get the reason why he started it, save that email and then email the question next month on the same day. You will see for yourself that this is not a start up but a gruge against ALPA.

 

[D8drvr]

Again,

FloridaGulf was non-union when it started. The growth of non-union FloridaGulf caused the furlough of unionized, ALPA, Allegheny pilots.

 

[FL717]

eaglefly:

How about turning down your volume a bit. Its gonna be okay. We're all just having a conversation and you're all worked up about ... really nothing. I have never crossed a picket line, and work for a decent union carrier. You may not like my company, as evident by your attempted slap at me in your post.. but hey.. thats your problem. By the way exactly how many pilots at my company have crossed picket lines, and how does this affect you? When were you at Eastern? Are you an ALPA member now? If these questions don't apply to you, then how about staying on topic about Freedom Air and not me and my company..please.

My point is, and I'll try and clarify: there will ALWAYS be people who do what they and only they want. The key is that the majority of union labor WILL stay on course and that is the key to a successfull union... not that 1%-10% who do not abide by the CBA. Name calling and a stupid blacklist for people you don't know and never worked with at the same company, does very little... like it or not. We need to educate on exactly what Freedom Air is to unions across this great country.

Go union!

 

[DruDown]

Buda,
Excellent post. Jet Blue wasn't started-up in an attempt to circumvent the union or poise another company's employees against one another. Freedom was deliberately established to do just these things in a malicious manner.

Secondly, you make no sense with your comments. If you do go to work, you do influence the industry - NEGATIVELY! While the majority of us are trying to stick it out and fight for what we derserve - fair compensation, work rules and livable schedules, you would desecrating our attempts by going to Freedumb, in a manner saying that these things are not important, that protection is unnecessary, and "who needs work rules."

Our industry historically go through these cycles of expansion and cutbacks, it's your choice how to deal with it, but be advised, choosing to work at Freedumb and helping them get off their feet only hurts everyone and everyone's career. It takes away the limited leverage we have to protect our jobs. Think about the big picture before you focus in on yourself.

 

[D8drvr]

DruDown said:

"Secondly, you make no sense with your comments. If you do go to work, you do influence the industry - NEGATIVELY!"

So, I will influence the industry positively and stay unemployed? Am I making sense now?


"...it's your choice how to deal with it, but be advised, choosing to work at Freedumb and helping them get off their feet only hurts everyone and everyone's career."

Yes, it would definately hurt everyone by allowing me to pay my mortgage.


"Think about the big picture before you focus in on yourself."

I do try to see the big picture. And so you don't focus on yourself too much, you could send me your paycheck, since I'm the one helping the industry by staying unemployed. And could you put my kids on your health plan too, I am too busy looking at the big picture.

Again,

FloridaGulf was non-union when it started. The growth of non-union FloridaGulf caused the furlough of unionized, ALPA, Allegheny pilots. Mesa pilots should have thought about the big picture years ago instead of focusing on themselves.

 

[jetdriven]

freedom air is full of the "me first" and "every man for himself" mentality you posess. With your attitude I can see why you are on your 6th airline job, as your profile states. Perhaps you screwed yourself somewhere job-hopping along the way eh?
Nobody told you to have a mortgage and kids while in the airlines. I was furloughed last fall FROM MESA and to save money we stayed in my crappy 550 sq foot apartment with no cable. I also sold the 12,000$ car we were driving within a month and took up instructing part time at night. I switched from pepsi to iced tea.
Bottom line we were able to SAVE money, and, no I never considered Freedom-air!

how many mesa pilots cannot feed their kids or pay their mortgages when all of mesa's planes and routes are shifted over to freedom air? Did you think of that?

 

[eaglefly]

717 - volume is just fine. If you think that this conversation is about......"really nothing", then you are truly uninformed about this industrys past as well as it's potential future.

Yes ALPA. 16+ years.

ALPA definately has it's problems - Mainline/regional misrepresentation, J4J etc.

But to accept and justify pilots FREELY choosing to assist an individual exibiting all the characteristics of Frank Lorenzo in the interest of themselves at the expense of the airline pilot profession as a whole should NEVER be condoned.

If you don't TRULY understand the problem here (it appears you don't), then our profession just got one straw weaker.

JO and people like him are DEPENDING on you to help him. Sadly, he will sleep a little better tonight knowing that you're out there.