Freedomb all ready taking Mesa flights

[Rush Limbaugh]

Very Good Post! You should do us all a favor and never work for a unionized carrier.

Favor granted. I not only never want to work for a unionized carrier but I never want to work for any carrier. I'd be happier taking my retirement and playing golf everyday than working with whiny little union biotches. I graduated from Jr. High more than 20 years ago, I don't need to go back regarless of how much I get paid.

The ironic thing is that the name of the airline is Freedom. Here we are in a country that proclaims freedom around the world and a childish union is trying to block an airline from competing in an open market because it doesn't approve of management for whatever stupid reason. It's called capitalism. I suggest you get used to it because I, along with several million other great Americans are willing to put our lives on the line to ensure it's here to stay.

So don't worry about ever having to share a cockpit with me because my kind of airplanes only have one seat. If I ever have the urge to fly heavy airplanes (and I doubt I will), I'll do it in the non-union military.

 

[eaglefly]

Right 717. Lets not blame the pilots who KNOWINGLY accepted flying positions at a carrier under these circumstances. They better plan on retiring there and living in their domicile.

....and JO has the stones to say it is "unamerican" to hold his company(s) hostage.

Which is ironically the VERY same behavior he is using to "break" unions and ratchet down pilot salaries and working conditions to the lowest level in order to MAXIMIZE his wealth.

DISPICABLE individual, IMO.

...You seem to have found your carrier of choice. A well known haven for EAL scabs who gave nothing to the profession, just sucked as much sap from the trunk as possible and flew on.....

You fly away now Starling....Fly,Fly,Fly.

 

[tintube]

Rush: "Here we are in a country that proclaims freedom around the world and a childish union is trying to block an airline from competing in an open market because it doesn't approve of management for whatever stupid reason."

I guess you are refering workers right to fair negotiation under Railroad Act as stuipd. Great going!!!
There are some countries in the world where workers have no rights.Are you claiming that is the way to go?

 

[bigD]

DarnNearaJet - you're preaching to the choir, man. I agree, every aspiring professional pilot should have a solid grasp of the labor situation in the industry. That's a big reason I hang around here, and even sometimes interrupt a heated debate on scope or whatever else to ask a dumb question like, "What's a WO?" (yes, I asked that once!)

But I'd bet that more than half of the CFI's out there building time for an eventual regional spot don't think to do the research - their priority is just getting a job. Any job. Especially for a struggling CFI that is also supporting a family. And to me, this is a problem. The only way to put pressure on an airline like Freedom is to convince any pilot worth a sh*t to work someplace else. As long as Freedom has a pool of pilots willing to fly their planes whatever the cost - they're going to hold the advantage.

So it seems to me that pilots worried about airlines like Freedom need to be proactive about getting the word out to everyone about this kind of thing.

 

[frankbama]

any suggestions on where to educate ourselves on thes matters there are so many labor negotiations going on that i couldn't possibly keep up with who's mad at who and why these complaints never end
these message boards are very one sided and they should be because they are peoples opinions. does anyone have any good references because i would like to know more about this
i won't be sending my resume to mesa or freedom any time soon because the employees there are miserable and the pay is bad thats a perfectly good reason not to work there and this is also why pilots are lining up around the block at Skywest because being happy at work is priceless.
but i always understood this issue as mesa wanted more rj's and alpa wanted mainline guys to fly them at senior pay so jo said fine i'll start another company i know thats simplistic but thats why i'm asking for a better source

 

[152SIC]

Being somewhat ignorant to the entire union non-union argument, please correct me if I am off-base: Several posters claim that Freedom Air pilots are to blame for various grievances. However, several years ago when I was granted interviews at "unionized" commuters the salary offered to me was laughable. So I never accepted these jobs since I felt that my experience and skills were worth more than what was comparable to a McDonalds worker. Now I am not trying to slam commuter pilots AT ALL!! But before we "call the kettle black," we should maybe examine all facets of the issue and realize that perhaps a lot of us are to blame for accepting employment under less that acceptable wage conditions.

That's kinda how I feel. I would NEVER work for Freedom Air either, so I am not sympathizing with JO.

 

[causingtrouble]

I know I'm going to get trashed for this, but I'll say it anyway. Freedom Air pilots are competing with ALPA pilots in what is known as the free market. Yes, that still exists in the US and yes they can do that if they want. Its competition, not back stabbing. As was said above, its barely any different than any regional airline. After all, if Delta could fly 50 seat CRJ's cheaper than COMAIR, they would. So COMAIR pilots are competing for Delta's money with Delta's pilots. Yes, I said it, COMAIR and Freedom Air aren't all that different. Just keep in mind that any body working at any job in this or any other industry is working the best job they could get. If these pilot's could get a job at United or American I'm sure they'd skip Freedom Air. But, because they can't get jobs at majors, they are going to fly for Freedom.

Second, I'm getting very tired of the socialistic attitude that ALPA takes. I work at Mesaba and I'm getting tired of hearing "Our Profits." Our profits are our paychecks. The rest goes to Mesaba. We have no claim to any of that money. Yes, we deserve more money, but at this rate, it will all go to Big Sky because our ALPA reps don't know the difference between negotiating and suicide. I'm also tired of being strong armed into supporting the union. Our latest message from the union said something to the effect that if we don't march in the informational picketing then we are horrible people. That's great, now if I don't march then I'll be black listed. Oh well. Guess I'll be black listed because I'm not going give in to strong arm tactics. Until Friday I supported them. Now Freedom Air looks like a better company than Mesaba.

 

[D8drvr]

It sounds to me like some MESA pilots have forgotten the beginnings of their own company. FloridaGulf started as a non-union carrier. It bought half the assests of Allegheny Airlines, an ALPA carrier. This caused Allegheny/ALPA pilot to lose their jobs. Alot of current "senior" MESA pilots got their jobs on the backs of Allegheny pilots. It sounds like Freedom and JO are doing to you the same thing you did to Allegheny pilots. (You did research the industry before you took that FloridaGulf job 10 years ago. Right?) How does it feel?

 

[frankbama]

employers used to force employees to do things they didn't want to under questionable circumstance, so some brave folks risked their lives and started unions. now those unions have so much power who protects us from them?
they've become like women "can't live with them can't live without them"

 

[DruDown]

I agree, pilots as a whole are to blame for the horrible pay and work rules we currently operate by - afterall we DID accept the jobs and the terms that came with the jobs. SOme guys even paid to get the jobs. As far as Freedumb is concerned, this is a moot point. Here we have individuals, we even have names and pictures, who have deliberately , knowingly, pre-mediatedly taken action against the entire regional airline pilot group by accepting a job at a company whos' sole purpose is to undermind the regional pilots' unions, the industry as a whole. There is no comparison, there is no justification. All the family stuff, personal gain garbage, screw it, it means nothing in the reality of things. The reality is we have an industry that needs help, not threats. We need unity of some kind, not segregation. We need everyone to stand their ground, not run off to the next best thing to save themselves.

By accepting a job at Freedumb, these guys have put up a giant middle finger to every regional airline pilot out there. They have definitely showed that they are weak-minded, have no loyalties and do not have a spine - truthfully, I wouldn't want to share a cockpit with one of those guys.

And don't start knocking Mesa all around. Truthfully, and I think we all know this, everyone hates their company, everyone has problems with management, scheduling, etc. It is no different anywhere else, it's just frame of reference. Even people at SkyWest are unhappy. They are starting to find out how important representation and protection are as their management is beginning to "aviod" issues as they come up. Don't let anyone fool you, it's the same anywhere. We are all undervalued, underappreciated, and overworked - the only way changes will be made is to stick together, fight together, and not continue to allow selfish, self-centered, spineless pilots obtain jobs in our industry, or let the ego of managements try to circumvent the system.

How do we educate other pilots? That's is each and every one of ours personal responsibility. Most of us here are airline pilots. We are the ones aspiring pilots come to speak to, to learn from, to get advice. It is our responsibility to educate them. DOn't let them fly for free. Don't let them pay for training, don't let them even think about jobs like Freedumb. We got ourselves into this mess, we need to get ourselves out of this mess.

 

[D8drvr]

DruDown,

Having a job in the field of your choice is a right we all have because we live in this great country. Which company we work for is also our choice. But the fact is, we MUST have money to LIVE (pay rent, buy food, etc.). Getting paid is NOT a moot point. I disagree with your idea that I should not have food or a place to live because it might prevent a MESA pilot from enjoying a better life. Does he care about me? If he does, then he can send me his paycheck and I will not consider Freedom. Until that time, I will persue all options.

Also, we are not all unhappy with where we work. Grow up.

 

[Caveman]

DruDown wrote:

"Truthfully, and I think we all know this, everyone hates their company, everyone has problems with management, scheduling, etc. It is no different anywhere else, it's just frame of reference. Even people at SkyWest are unhappy. They are starting to find out how important representation and protection are as their management is beginning to "aviod" issues as they come up. Don't let anyone fool you, it's the same anywhere. We are all undervalued, underappreciated, and overworked - the only way changes will be made is to stick together, fight together, and not continue to allow selfish, self-centered, spineless pilots obtain jobs in our industry, or let the ego of managements try to circumvent the system."

I strongly disagree with your assertion that it sucks everywhere. I have a good job with a stable company that treats me fairly and abides by our contract. I know lots of other pilots that also appreciate the company they work for.

Management is not the evil empire. Some of them are terrible and the performance of their companies suffer because of it. There are plenty of decent CEO's out there trying to balance the conflicting goals of making money for their stockholders while trying to hire and keep the best employees available. If you work for a company that treats employees like dirt leave and find a better job. To stay and be treated like crud is just as bad as working for crappy wages. It hurts you and it degrades the profession.

 

[mckpickle]

Favor granted. I not only never want to work for a unionized carrier but I never want to work for any carrier. I'd be happier taking my retirement and playing golf everyday than working with whiny little union biotches. I graduated from Jr. High more than 20 years ago, I don't need to go back regarless of how much I get paid.

The ironic thing is that the name of the airline is Freedom. Here we are in a country that proclaims freedom around the world and a childish union is trying to block an airline from competing in an open market because it doesn't approve of management for whatever stupid reason. It's called capitalism. I suggest you get used to it because I, along with several million other great Americans are willing to put our lives on the line to ensure it's here to stay.

So don't worry about ever having to share a cockpit with me because my kind of airplanes only have one seat. If I ever have the urge to fly heavy airplanes (and I doubt I will), I'll do it in the non-union military.

I think met you, were you the hemeroid on my a$$ last week.

 

[mckpickle]

Call em scabs, scum bumbs, pricks, I dont care what. But they will NEVER ride on my jumpseat.

 

[DruDown]

D8,
I'm not telling you not to feed your family or take a check, I'm just insisting you do it in an inteligent, well thought out manner, without detriment to the industry you have chosen to work in. We have all CHOSEN this industry, and isn't it better to work together to fix the problems than run to quickest band-aid and let the vicious cycle start all over again. Doing the right thing is rarely the easy way out.

And point of clarification, when I state that all companines are horrible, I am making a generalization, based off of what we all read here, we read from ALPA, I hear in the cockpits of the planes I jumpseat in and many other areas - the majority of the pilots out there have gripes with their companies, and as pilots we like to embelish, thus we "hate" our companies. I am sorry for the poor termanology, but I think you know what I mean.

 

[skybuda]

Did JO really say this:

"Mesa will not shut down. We will become a very successful leasing company. That issue was discussed and fully supported by the Board at last week's meeting. Do not underestimate our resolve to do the right thing. And being held hostage is not the "American way" as I know it."

Does this mean that he is wet leasing out the 700 right and those dump ass that went to freedom are really not out on a LOA right now.

I sure hope so because that would be a huge TDY misaward and one hell of a greviance for the unoin. Since they went all the way though the mesa seniorty list to find there 50 or so that would mean that eveyone on the mesa list should be getting a nice fat check. Or maybe we could just pone that off for one hell of a contract.

SB

 

[eaglefly]

Congratulations D8drvr, you've just sold out to the SAME philospohy that EAL 's, UAL's and CAL's scabs used to justify crossing those respective picket lines.

Whether you realize it or not, you've already psycologically become a scab. Now you just need a picket line to impliment your philosophy.

Never before in the history of the once honorable profession of airline flying has the future been clogged with so many up-and-coming "me first" artisits.

Bleak indeed.

 

[D8drvr]

DruDown and eaglefly,

Let me get this straight. If I'm OUT OF WORK, and NOT flying or employed by Freedom Airlines I CAN have an effect on the condition of the airline industry as a whole. But as soon a I TAKE a job with Freedom, or an airline like it, then I am bringing the industry down. I guess aviation is the only industry that can be influenced by NOT working in it.

As for being a scab. I'm a 10 year ALPA member. I would never cross a picket line. But if you think I would be unemployed rather that work for a start up company (because that is all that Freedom is) your crazy. I guess the guys at JetBlue are scabs to your line of thinking.

 

[skybuda]

I almost forgot, Did United duing the nogations with the pilots say hay lets start a new airline. We have blue airplanes so lets call it Jet Blue. No I dont think so. If JO wanted to start a new upstart airline, key word NEW,then all the power to him. Just don't uses my and evey other Mesa employees money to fund his eago.

This was not a issue of wanting to start a new airline as a upstart, but a way to gain pressure on the unoin. If you want, email him and get the reason why he started it, save that email and then email the question next month on the same day. You will see for yourself that this is not a start up but a gruge against ALPA.

 

[D8drvr]

Again,

FloridaGulf was non-union when it started. The growth of non-union FloridaGulf caused the furlough of unionized, ALPA, Allegheny pilots.