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Freedom Airlines???

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Well-known member
Jun 3, 2002
Does anyone out there know how to get hiring info. or an application from these guys? I tried their website...it says Freedom airlines does not hire pilots but hires honest, dedicated, blah, blah, blah people. They don't have a mailing address or anything else, not even hiring requirements. Anyway, if anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.
You may want to reconsider your desire to work for this company. It is being set up by the future"uncle Frank" of the airline industry. If you read between the lines they're looking for a few " future scabs" to use as whipsaw material for gradually whittling down of pilot salaries and benefits (what little already exist at the regional level). More than likely, pilots who choose to work for this carrier will be shunned by the industry. I would plan on living in your domiciled city as most other carrier captains will be unable to offer you a ride to work. Best of luck in your decision.

I will try and give you as un-biased information as I can regarding Freedom Airlines.

Freedom is being created by Mesa CEO Jonathan Orenstien to operate the CRJ-700 and CRJ 900 for America West Express. Currently the USAirways scope restrictions limits the size of airplanes that any carrier can operate if they do business as USAirways Express, regardless if the aircraft are operated in behalf of USAirways Express. In short because Mesa is a USAirways Express, because of scope, they cannot operate 70 and 90 seat jets for America West. Hence the need for the creation of a new airline.

Now the USAirways MEC has said that he is willing to relax that part of the scope clause so Mesa could operate the 700/900, but such relaxing of the scope has not happened and would also require the approval of Duane Woerth. Woerth has gone on record as saying that he does not want 90 seat aircraft operating at regional airlines.

In addition to the scope issue, ALPA and Orenstien are very far apart on other contractual issues as well such as pay rates, work rules, etc.

The result of all of this is that Freedom is being started as a non-union carrier, which of course angers ALPA.

The long and short of it right now is that if you want to fly for Freedom is that you have to be a current or furloughed Mesa pilot. Mesa pilots have the opportunity to bid over to Freedom when their seniority allows them to hold the position they have bid. Actually all of the bids must have been submitted already.

If you ask the die-hard ALPA supporters they claim very few pilots have bid Freedom, if you ask management they have more than enough to operate Freedom, plus thousands of inquiries from people off the street. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Hopefully that is as neutral as you can get.
What "Freedom" should be saying is "We're looking for individuals who are willing to work for peanuts in exchange for getting to wear a pilot uniform. Piloting skills not required, but a strong desire to subvert pilot unions by working for low wages and benefits, and possibly scab a strike or two a plus. Applicants must come from Mesa Airlines, or the Mesa Pilot Development Program as they are already 'indoctrinated' with the career ideals required for this position."

Did you know that Freedom pilots will be flying 70 and 90 seat RJs for less than the ASA/Comair 50 seat RJ rate? Did you know that by being non-union and working against union pilots (stealing their jobs for less money) Freedom pilots will be blacklisted? This means you won't be able to get a job after working there.. you'll be treated like a "scab".

I would advise anyone to think twice before taking a job there.
Did you know that by being non-union and working against union pilots (stealing their jobs for less money) Freedom pilots will be blacklisted?

Is that directed at all non union outfits, or just freedom because they are both Mesa?
Freedom Air, in case I wasn't clear enough.
Respectable non-union outfits like Skywest have nothing to fear since they tend to honor picket lines and have wages and benefits on par with the union carriers.
Freedom Air is designed exclusively to subvert any carriers contract (including scope). It has already been marketed to carriers besides AWA (including Delta) as a tool for this very purpose. By working for substandard wages and benefits, Freedom Air pilots will be giving management a tool to win concessions from the unions. Freedom Air has promised to run the company in such a way as to skirt the loopholes of the scope clauses.
One ( important ) thing to add is that Mesa is in currently in contract negotiation. Mabe this is another good reason for JO to start Freedom Airlines....
Also note that Freedom Airlines does not ( as of today ) have a operating certificate. Neither has their Operating handbook been approved by the FAA. They completed the applications a few months ago but who knows how long time FAA will use approving it?

One poster said that ALPA and JO are very far apart on payrates and work rules etc.
As far as I know ( and I might be wrong ), JO has not started negotiation on payscales for the 700 / 900 yet. ( Since he does not want Mesa to fly them I guess...) ALPA have given 2 proposals but nothing from JO. Work rules? MESA has some the worst work rules among unionized airlines, so what is there for JO to give?
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Listen Guys,

I agree that this freedom air is a BS set up to get around scope. However I am a little bit concerned with the way people are throwing around the term "blacklisting" or equating a pilot working for a company like this as being some sort of scab. I agree that pilots working at companies like this aren't really doing the pilot group any favors, but calling them scabs is a serious thing. Scabs exist when pilots are on strike. Struck work occurs when pilots are on strike and other pilots accept trips that would otherwise be covered by the pilots who are on strike. And specific circumstances are usually defined by the striking pilots MEC. The jumpseat protection list exists under very serious circumstances. So don't trivialize it.
Somebody tell me what is the difference between Freedom Airlines, created by JO and Potomac airlines created by USAirways, UMEC and ALPA? I'd really like to know.

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