Freedom Airlines Accepts J4J.......

[hhab]

To put pressure on U's mec to accept nonunionized labor, or a trick to force Mesa Airlines Mec to accept J4J without letting pilots vote for it if a TA on their new contract will be reached?




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FREEDOM AIRLINES PILOTS CONSENT TO "JETS FOR JOBS"

PHOENIX - Mesa Air Group today announced that the pilots at its subsidiary, Freedom Airlines, have unanimously consented to accept the US Airways 'jets for jobs' program. The agreement would allow Freedom to operate regional jets in the US Airways Express system under a revenue guarantee agreement with the airline.

In an open letter to the chairman of the US Airways pilots union, the Freedom pilots stated "Freedom Airlines and its pilots recognize the sacrifices of the US Airways pilots for US Airways furloughed pilots. We currently have opportunities and growth that will provide hundreds of pilot jobs for US Airways furloughed pilots."

Under the 'jets for jobs' agreement previously reached between US Airways and its pilots, 50% of new regional jet jobs must be offered to furloughed US Airways pilots. In return, the US Airways pilots agreed to amend their contract to allow a substantial increase in the number of regional jets which can be operated by the US Airways Express carriers.

Freedom Airlines currently operates 64-seat CRJ-700 as America West Express and will be begin operating 80-seat CRJ-900 aircraft in the spring of 2002.

"We are pleased to be able to offer job opportunities to the furloughed pilots at US Airways and at the same time create additional opportunities for our people at Freedom," said Michael Ferverda, President of Freedom. "In addition, we are excited about contributing to the restructuring of US Airways. This is clearly a situation where all the parties involved come out ahead, and we are anxious to move forward."

"We cordially invite the US Airways pilots and their union representatives to meet with Freedom Airlines pilot management to expedite the placement of your furloughed pilots into the cockpits of our airplanes."

Freedom currently has firm aircraft orders for 34 CRJ-700 and -900 aircraft. Mesa Airlines, Freedom's sister company, has an agreement with US Airways for 70 additional regional jets. It is expected that these aircraft will create more than 1000 new pilot jobs.

 

[JTrain]

FREEDOM AIRLINES PILOTS CONSENT TO "JETS FOR JOBS"

PHOENIX - Mesa Air Group today announced that the pilots at its subsidiary, Freedom Airlines, have unanimously consented to accept the US Airways 'jets for jobs' program. The agreement would allow Freedom to operate regional jets in the US Airways Express system under a revenue guarantee agreement with the airline.

I hope the Freedom Air pilots didn't unanimously consent to allow USAir pilots fly for them w/ J4J the same way Iraq recently unanimously reelected Hussein.

Regardless, I wish some Freedom Air pilots would come my way at IAD so we could gladly give 'em the boot and NOT let them jumpseat...

Down with Freedom - do those pilots have any idea the disservice they are doing to their profession? I can't believe anyone could live in such a bubble!

JT

 

[azpilot]

Have fun being an FO forever while US Air pilots sit in the left seat. If this even ever happens. Now you will have no PIC time and still won't be able to get hired anywhere else.

Just say no to Freedom.

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Ya a 1000 new jobs created, what a bad thing for the industry.

 

[hhab]

"Ya a 1000 new jobs created, what a bad thing for the industry."

-------------

Sure, and 1350 jobs for Mesa Airlines gone, + X amount of U's W/O jobs gone as well, not talking about the potential for strongly weakenings ANY unions position, wait to see rapid creation of other alter-ego airlines and.... Do you want me to go on?........

 

[azpilot]

Ya a 1000 new jobs created, what a bad thing for the industry.

These are not "new" jobs. They are jobs being taken away from other regionals. Lots of Mesa pilots could be furloughed soon because of what JO is doing. Get your facts straight.

If this was an independent carrier that had no ties to Mesa this might be a different story. All Freedom is, is a union busting operation. Go ahead and take a job at Freedom and see where your career goes.

Who wants to bet that JO puts a bid in for United's regional flying with Freedom?

I am not flying now and would like to but I will never take a job with an outfit like Freedom.

Wake up and realize that all of your training and expertise are worth something! If it means fares across the board go up slightly so that regional pilots can make a fair wage then so be it. I define fair as at least 30k per year for an FO with at least 1 year of service. It's a shame there are so many people willing to work for less and less and even pay for the opportunity to fly.

Say no to Freedom

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Well don't go fly for Freedom, no big deal. Your union first attitude is contributing to many a pilots job loss. Be proud, be unemployed, take a job flipping burgers because your too good to fly for a non-union carrier. Yes I know it is more than just non-union, it was designed to break negotiations with Mesa's pilot union. Take a look around, the money train of the 90's are over for a while.

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Oh I almost forgot, in America it is about supply and demand. Live able wage has nothing to do with it. If you want a live able wage in aviation, flying as an f.o. for a regional will not give it to you and never will. I thin aeroflot pays a liveable wage to f.o.'s so you know where to go live.

 

[hhab]

"Yes I know it is more than just non-union, it was designed to break negotiations with Mesa's pilot union. Take a look around, the money train of the 90's are over for a while."
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Excuse me, since you claim to understands the problem in aviation these days. Can you let me know what loss Mesa had the last 5 years? or even after sept11?

Did not think so. Let me let you in on a little secret: Every year Mesa posts huge profits. Let me correct that and say every 3 first quarters. Every 4th ends with a loss. Our contract is based on 4 quarters in a row to achieve average pay How many raises do you think I had the last 5 years? ( one....) If the 90s was profitable for the industry I sure hell did not notice that in my pocket.....

Can you tell me how much raise we are asking for? or what our proposal will cost Mesa?
-----------------

"If you want a live able wage in aviation, flying as an f.o. for a regional will not give it to you and never will."


That is exactly the case we are fighting about. If you have follow the changes in this industry you will realize the growth of regionals these days and belive me, a lot more pilots will be employed by one the time they retire.

Or maybe our investment in our career is not worth much, as you say it is a matter of supply and demand.

I notices you have some Heli time so I assums you was in the Forces? How about letting more of the applicants have acces to the slots open? Lets find out who wants to do the job cheapest. Should be a great way to save some money don't you agree? It should be a matter of supply and demand as you say.......
Of course not. There must be some protection for the jobs out there against that. You had it in the millitary, and some of us wants a little of that out in the civilian life as well.

 

[saabtrash]

Earlthesquirrel,

Please shut up, you are dumb.

 

[Dieterly]

They are jobs being taken away from other regionals. Lots of Mesa pilots could be furloughed soon

Hmm.. Aren't Mesa pilots takin jobs away from U and America West pilots???

 

[jetdriven]

Hmm.. Aren't Mesa pilots takin jobs away from U and America West pilots???

I wouldnt say that. U mainline used to fly a 737 into Elmira, NY. How long could they stay in business doing that?
RJ's feed the hub which in turn fill those mainliners up. Look at the DAL flying, over 400 RJ's. This increases profitability. Thats why DAL and CAL, while not exactly profitable, they are definately better off than U or UAL.
When the RJ came out and actually even now U or AWA mainline is free to buy RJ's. However, they are unable to finance new aircraft. Thats where Mesa comes in. It is management who gives away the flying. be mad at them.


Freedom is an Alter ego designed from the outset to circumvent the rights of the Mesa pilots under the RLA.

 

[azpilot]

Hmm.. Aren't Mesa pilots takin jobs away from U and America West pilots???

This is only an issue if HP can fill the seats on the route. If it only requires a 50 seat jet then so be it. I don't agree with regionals flying anything above this. Others may not agree with me. It is up to the AWA pilots to try to get a contract that will let them fly the smaller jets if they want to. I don't think the current TA will help with this though.

So there is some balance somewhere. You can't make money flying a 130 passenger jet around with 30-40 people on it all day long.

- AZPilot

 

[jetdriven]

i agree any plane larger than 50 seats should be flown by mainline. We could be working at AWA making a hell of a lot more flying a 90 seater than at mesa. treated better too.

 

[Britpilot]

Well don't go fly for Freedom, no big deal. Your union first attitude is contributing to many a pilots job loss. Be proud, be unemployed, take a job flipping burgers because your too good to fly for a non-union carrier. Yes I know it is more than just non-union, it was designed to break negotiations with Mesa's pilot union. Take a look around, the money train of the 90's are over for a while.

Stick with your Cessna, stick with what you know and keep away from the airlines, you are not welcome, moron.

 

[eaglefly]

Earthsquirrel either has his resume into Freedom and desieres to be a 25,000/year airline pilot topping out at 50 in 15 years - or he is managment.

His rational is the same as J.O.'s. Pilots are nothing but "aerial bus drivers" and should be paid bus driver wages. All the while J.O. and assorted other fat cat executves rake in MILLIONS at their expense.

If you don't stand up for something, you'll fall for anything.

Earthsquirrel fell a long time ago.

An advocate of managment stealing as many nuts as it can to fill its cheeks until they burst and handing a nut or two out to the pilots who actually produce.

 

[surplus1]

i agree any plane larger than 50 seats should be flown by mainline. We could be working at AWA making a hell of a lot more flying a 90 seater than at mesa. treated better too.

Why should any plane larger than 50 seats be flown by "mainline"?

Why do you assume that if you were working at AWA you would automatically be making more money for a 90-seater than at Mesa? Why would you automatically be treated better at AWA?

Why can't your union, which is the same union at AWA, negotiate the same pay and working conditions for a 90-seater at Mesa as it could at AWA?

Face it, who operates the airplane does NOT automatically result in higher wages or better working conditions. Your union wants you to believe that because it favors the mainline group over the regional group. The union would like the mainline pilots to have those jobs in preference to the regional pilots. That favoritism really has nothing to do with economics. It has to do with who is running the union, i.e., the mainline pilots. Naturally, they want to take care of themselves before they take care of you or me. "Self preservation is nature's first law." Well guess what, I want to take care of me before I take care of them. It seems we are "birds of a feather" after all.

If the union can negotiate better wages and working conditions for a 90-seat jet at one airline, then it can do the same at another airline. Actually, since the financial condition of Mesa Air Group is better than the financial condition of America West, the union (if it wants to) should be able to do better at Mesa. Unless, of course, the union's demands are unreasonable.

Since we already have "regional airlines" and "major airlines" that are arbitrarily divided from each other, that is not going to change because we "wish" that it would. Keep in mind that this "division" is the brainchild of the union. Management is simply taking advantage of it. The union and the mainline pilots are the one's that originally gave management that advantage. Unfortunately (for us), it is an advantage that management will not willingly give up.

Since "we" (the union) created this separation now we have to live with it. The division exists and there is no going back. Certainly not in the economic conditions of today. The major airlines (most of them) are incapable of sustaining their present business models. They will either change them or ultimately go out of business. That's not "pretty" and I don't like it either, but it is reality. In today's world these "major airlines" simply cannot continue to operate profitably with the cost structure that they have in place. It will change whether we like it or not.

When the change comes a 50-seat, 70-seat or 90-seat RJ will NOT be operated at a "mainline carrier" with the high wages, benefits and low productivity of the typical major airline. Therefore, if the airplane is moved to the major, you as its pilot won't be getting the pipe dream that you imagine. You'll just be giving your job and your seniority to the mainline pilot. Why? Because he wants it?

Yes there should be a division between the two, but only because we have allocated the work to different groups. How was that "allocation" determined and by whom? Answer: It was determined arbitrarily and unilaterally by mainline pilots. There is no "logic" in the dividing line that your 50-seat limit imagines.

Fifty seats is nothing more than one pilot group, now dissatisfied with its lack of growth upward, suddenly deciding that it "wants to fly the small jets" and grow downward; a condition that the very same group did NOT want only a short while ago. They didn't want ANY "regional" aircraft at the time. They previously did not want anything smaller than a DC-9 or a 737. Now they do. Does that mean that regional pilots simply have to accept whatever arbitrary line mainline pilots choose to draw? I don't think so.

It is their (the mainline pilots) idea that a line should be drawn at 50-seats. Nobody asked me (a regional pilot) where I thought the line should be drawn. Do I just have to accept whatever line a pilot from another airline happens to decide is "best for me"? I think NOT. I'm quite capable of deciding what is "best for me" without their help; a fact that often seems to escape them. What happens to me if tomorrow the same mainline pilots decide to redraw the new line at 30-seats? Do I just give away my job and my seniority becuse that's the way mainline pilots want it? Sorry but that's nonsense!

Unless WE (mainline pilots and regional pilots) decide TOGETHER and by mutual agreement where the "line" should be drawn, it will always be arbitrary and we will continue to fight with each other over who gets what piece of the pie. Result: Management wins.

We really have only two choices: 1) Join forces and become a single pilot group (one list) or 2) Reach a mutual agreement as to where the line will be drawn between us. As long as either group continues to try to impose it's view on the other group, there will be war between us. That is exactly what's happening today, i.e., mainline pilots groups are trying to impose their views on regional pilot groups, against the will and at the expense of the regional pilots. That's a win/lose scenario.

Some regional pilot groups, mostly those that are young and relatively inexperienced, are willing to accept that. Others have been and are being coerced, by their own union, into accepting it. Other regional groups want no part of it, won't be coerced and will fight for what they see as theirs, just like the mainline pilots are doing. My pilot group will never accept any arbitrary limit that is imposed upon us by any mainline group against our will. Maybe 50-seats is acceptable to you but it is NOT acceptable to us. Where does that leave us?

Ultimately, market forces and economics will determine where the line, if any, should be. The sooner that Duane Woerth and company recognizes that he cannot draw that line arbitrarily or unilaterally in Herndon, Atlanta, Virginia or Phoenix any more than I can draw it arbitrarily in Cincinnati or you can draw it in New Mexico, the better off we'll all be. Then we can sit down together, as we should be doing now, and agree on where we want the line to be drawn.

Do I have an opinon? Sure I do but my opinion is just as arbitrary as the mainline 50-seat opinion. Why? Because it is based on protecting my interests, which happen to be different from their interests. Until OUR interests become one and the same or at least shared, the dividing line between us (measured in aircraft size) will always be the cause of disputes and a lack of unity.

Do I want to take anything from them? NO, I do not. I think they should keep their DC-9s (717's), 737's and Airbus varieties at the "mainline", but the regional jets (which end in my opinion at 100-seats) stay on my side of the fence. I don't want to take from them but I will not voluntarily allow them to take from me either.

Should we take down the fence? Yes, we should! How should we do that? TOGETHER or not at all.

I wish us all a better New Year.

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Freedom takes pilot jobs from Mesa, Mesa takes jobs from America West and U.S. Airways. The regional pilots who are willing to work for peanuts now have it come right back to them. Shame on you. To hear a regional pilot complain of being undercutted by another carrier is laughable.

For those who work at Mesa be glad J.O. posts a "paper" loss every year and doesn't have to pay you a pay raise. It keeps you employed. If things are so bad then please leave and find employment elsewhere in this wide open job market.

I personally fly for a corporation that considers us as part of a team and not as an adversary. This is a relationship that has been cultivated on both sides. ALPA and its members should try it sometime.

 

[likeitis]

I personally fly for a corporation that considers us as part of a team and not as an adversary. This is a relationship that has been cultivated on both sides.

It's called you receiving a reach around while you take it from behind.


Just keep polishing your leaders one eyed yogurt slinger while humming I LOVE MY JOB AND EMPLOYER, THEY CAN NEVER DO WRONG.

 

[Smoking Man]

hhab

Could you post where you found this information about freedom and JFJ.

Thanks


Smoking Man