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Freedom Airline Jumpseat
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SkySpray said:
No, I was talking about Mesa's. The new Mesa TA calls for one list including bringing back CC Air pilots. I had heard the America West TA might call for all contract carriers to be union but I am not sure of that. I have also heard that it might get voted down. We'll have to wait and see.
inthepool
My name is Inigo Montoya
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2003
- Posts
- 157
HomerJay I resent your remarks about Riddle. As a Riddle graduate I don't consider myself an arrogant or aloof pilot. What I do know is that I got a helluva good education at Riddle. While the flight training was not as good as it could have been, the classroom study was top-notch. I am not the greatest pilot, but I'm a better pilot for having gone to Riddle. Yes, it was expensive, but in my mind it was worth every penny. Do you have a four year degree? If so, where from and what in? If you don't, I suggest you try one before discounting it as worthless.
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,533
-----------------------
"...certainly does not give me the right to alienate the people who have worked harder to get where they are because I want to fly a jet right now. "
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EXACTLY! Sometimes, someone wants something SO badly that they begin to feel that they deserve it so much more than others.
Riddlebrat-
There are 'trainee' FOs and 'pilot' FOs Wouldn't you rather get into that seat when you possess a substantial portion of the skills, instead of the barest minimum?
None of these low time bridge programs should EVER have been allowed. Like Freedom, PFT, or whatever, they do NOTHING to help further the profession. As pilots, we have sold ourselves out allowing these programs to exist.
"...certainly does not give me the right to alienate the people who have worked harder to get where they are because I want to fly a jet right now. "
-----------------------
EXACTLY! Sometimes, someone wants something SO badly that they begin to feel that they deserve it so much more than others.
Riddlebrat-
There are 'trainee' FOs and 'pilot' FOs Wouldn't you rather get into that seat when you possess a substantial portion of the skills, instead of the barest minimum?
None of these low time bridge programs should EVER have been allowed. Like Freedom, PFT, or whatever, they do NOTHING to help further the profession. As pilots, we have sold ourselves out allowing these programs to exist.
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,533
And another thing-
Pointing at where you went to school and thinking that this in some way gives you some sort of elite status is really weak.
Every school has turned out its share of boneheads who shouldn't even have a private certificate.
Holding up your diploma is almost like hiding behind it.
Let's see how you fly and how much you know. Pointing at your 'training' is like saying your dad can beat up my dad. Maybe he can, but does that mean that YOU can beat ME up? Now that just depends, pardner.
Pointing at where you went to school and thinking that this in some way gives you some sort of elite status is really weak.
Every school has turned out its share of boneheads who shouldn't even have a private certificate.
Holding up your diploma is almost like hiding behind it.
Let's see how you fly and how much you know. Pointing at your 'training' is like saying your dad can beat up my dad. Maybe he can, but does that mean that YOU can beat ME up? Now that just depends, pardner.
Riddlebratt
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Posts
- 31
Homer Jay and 100LL First off get a grip on reality!!! People express how proud they are about their Universities in many different ways. Catch on to my Name Riddlebratt!!!! get it ??? you may or may not. Homer first off I am blessed to have had another company pay for each and every dime of my college education at Riddle. By me wanting only the best Aviation Based Education I went to other airline pilots besides my father for proper direction.........they pointed me towards Riddle.. So 4yrs later I became an Embry-Riddle alum.. Oh So Proud of it. I met alot of neat people along the way and top notch education to go along with them. Not to diss other schools such as Auburn,Purdue Flight Safety and the list goes on. I just love my school point blank end of story.
I dont think that I am better than the next person but I do have confidence. 98% of my flight training came from military flying schools. My job did'nt pay for the flying only the academics.
100LL I am not in a bridge program.... My comments about being a low time jet pilot deal only and directly with the pilots over at Freedom (If they can fly them why can't I). I am presently flying Beech Barons and T-34's working on my CFI improving my flying skills. BUT I STILL WANT TO FLY JETS JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!! Now I must get back to work before my boss catch me and put a dent into my flight fund.... Buy American
I dont think that I am better than the next person but I do have confidence. 98% of my flight training came from military flying schools. My job did'nt pay for the flying only the academics.
100LL I am not in a bridge program.... My comments about being a low time jet pilot deal only and directly with the pilots over at Freedom (If they can fly them why can't I). I am presently flying Beech Barons and T-34's working on my CFI improving my flying skills. BUT I STILL WANT TO FLY JETS JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!! Now I must get back to work before my boss catch me and put a dent into my flight fund.... Buy American
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
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Riddlebrat-
The point is not that you should or should not be flying RJ's.
The point is that 600 hr pilots going to the likes of freedom in order to 'get ahead' quickly is costing the more qualified pilots an opportunity.
It is turning the profession upside down in some ways.
I am a free market believer, but there has to be a line somewhere.
The point is not that you should or should not be flying RJ's.
The point is that 600 hr pilots going to the likes of freedom in order to 'get ahead' quickly is costing the more qualified pilots an opportunity.
It is turning the profession upside down in some ways.
I am a free market believer, but there has to be a line somewhere.
Riddlebratt
Active member
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- Jan 22, 2003
- Posts
- 31
100LL.....Again I understand that... Thats why I continue to gain experience daily... By the time things turn around I will have the time I need to get hired somewhere....Good luck with your own career and I hope the trend reverses soon.... Keep the skies safe...........................Buy American.................................
Flying"C"ranchr
Active member
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- Sep 28, 2002
- Posts
- 30
Fly'n Freedom Be Concerned
Now that Freedom will be on the same seniority list I recommend anyone looking at coming to Mesa be concerned about being furloughed in the near future. Once J4J begins some pilots may be getting layed off. It all depends how many new aircraft come on board and how many J4J folks come on board. AS well as what aircraft will be used. It's possible some aircraft culd be parked or less utilized. Thus, laid off pilots. Just a thought.
Ranch'r
Now that Freedom will be on the same seniority list I recommend anyone looking at coming to Mesa be concerned about being furloughed in the near future. Once J4J begins some pilots may be getting layed off. It all depends how many new aircraft come on board and how many J4J folks come on board. AS well as what aircraft will be used. It's possible some aircraft culd be parked or less utilized. Thus, laid off pilots. Just a thought.
Ranch'r
I don't think so.
Furloughs are not nearly as likely as more hiring, probably within 6 months. The only excess in pilots right now is about 30 pilots in the ERJ. They are going to sucked up quickly be the 700's since they never had them fully manned in the captain seat. Plus, don't forget that J4J specifies that USAir pilots will only be hired to fill half the seats on NEW aircraft, not any of the aircraft Mesa Air group already flys, the other half of the positions will be pulled from Mesa pilots so there will be a net increase.
Also from what I understand the new Scope agreement means that any operational changes at Mesa that will affect 25% or more of the pilots has to be approved by the pilot group, so Johnny O can't simply get rid of any aircraft on a whim anymore. The props aren't going anywhere.
Still, I do agree that anyone thinking of coming to Mesa seriously consider other options, at least for right now. The union's priority was scope, J4J and the single seniority list. That means that there likely won't be any pay raises, quality of life improvements or anything else improved. The meat of the contract will be status quo, leaving us under the same sub-standard conditions as we are already flying on. I'd recommend going to some of the other regionals hiring like Comair if you have any choice at all. That is, unless there are people out there who like flying a jet for a part 121 carrier and at the same time still qualifying for food stamps.
Furloughs are not nearly as likely as more hiring, probably within 6 months. The only excess in pilots right now is about 30 pilots in the ERJ. They are going to sucked up quickly be the 700's since they never had them fully manned in the captain seat. Plus, don't forget that J4J specifies that USAir pilots will only be hired to fill half the seats on NEW aircraft, not any of the aircraft Mesa Air group already flys, the other half of the positions will be pulled from Mesa pilots so there will be a net increase.
Also from what I understand the new Scope agreement means that any operational changes at Mesa that will affect 25% or more of the pilots has to be approved by the pilot group, so Johnny O can't simply get rid of any aircraft on a whim anymore. The props aren't going anywhere.
Still, I do agree that anyone thinking of coming to Mesa seriously consider other options, at least for right now. The union's priority was scope, J4J and the single seniority list. That means that there likely won't be any pay raises, quality of life improvements or anything else improved. The meat of the contract will be status quo, leaving us under the same sub-standard conditions as we are already flying on. I'd recommend going to some of the other regionals hiring like Comair if you have any choice at all. That is, unless there are people out there who like flying a jet for a part 121 carrier and at the same time still qualifying for food stamps.
AceCrackshot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2003
- Posts
- 380
I find it a bit funny that the with Freedom the Mesa Pilots have
all of a sudden become hard core trade unionists...
I'll put it in a nutshell. Mesa IS Freedom to the Wholly-Owneds.
(PSA, PDT, and ALG)
The W/O's have done a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sight more for regional airline
contracts than anyone at MAG. Now, someone undercuts them,
and viola! they're scabs. What do you think you are to us?
Well, guess what kids? Read a text on aviation labor sometime
and get back to me on what is the definition of a "scab."
And it's not someone you dislike.
The Mesa/ALPA national position on Freedom is so full of holes
that it could be used as a cheese grader. And by dropping the
scab bomb, you cheapen it. But who cares? It's all about you,
right?
I have friends at AM/Mesa. They went there with the same rationale that I went with to Lakes. Any regional job. Period.
Why didn't we hold out for Comair or Piedmont? You Mesa guys
can answer.
all of a sudden become hard core trade unionists...
I'll put it in a nutshell. Mesa IS Freedom to the Wholly-Owneds.
(PSA, PDT, and ALG)
The W/O's have done a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sight more for regional airline
contracts than anyone at MAG. Now, someone undercuts them,
and viola! they're scabs. What do you think you are to us?
Well, guess what kids? Read a text on aviation labor sometime
and get back to me on what is the definition of a "scab."
And it's not someone you dislike.
The Mesa/ALPA national position on Freedom is so full of holes
that it could be used as a cheese grader. And by dropping the
scab bomb, you cheapen it. But who cares? It's all about you,
right?
I have friends at AM/Mesa. They went there with the same rationale that I went with to Lakes. Any regional job. Period.
Why didn't we hold out for Comair or Piedmont? You Mesa guys
can answer.
1. Nobody deserves to fly anything...they earn it!! And to earn it does not mean that you have a ton of flying time. I have flown with many airline captains that have scared the crap out of me, and they had a boat load more time than I did. You need experience to go along with the flight time.
2. I am also a graduate of ERAU, and I agree 100% that alot of the grads are very arrogant just because they went to Riddle. Lots of dorks as well. I stayed away from one very top notch company because alot of the pilots there were Riddle grads (due to a bridge program and other factors). That being said, I personally felt well prepared for all airline ground schools that I have attended (2 intitial, 1 transition). I too believe that the school is over priced, in one area. The flight training. The actual tuition (college credits) when I was there made ERAU the cheapest private school in the East. I watched as friends of mine from high school went on to Notre Dame, Boston College and Villanova. They paid over thirty thousand dollars a year. For what, to get a degree from a school who's name is well known in the fields they wanted to pursue as careers. That is exactly what I did!
3. All I have too say about Freedom Air is that it will always exist in my mind. The pilot list will live in my flight case for ever.
Fire Away,
Mayday.
2. I am also a graduate of ERAU, and I agree 100% that alot of the grads are very arrogant just because they went to Riddle. Lots of dorks as well. I stayed away from one very top notch company because alot of the pilots there were Riddle grads (due to a bridge program and other factors). That being said, I personally felt well prepared for all airline ground schools that I have attended (2 intitial, 1 transition). I too believe that the school is over priced, in one area. The flight training. The actual tuition (college credits) when I was there made ERAU the cheapest private school in the East. I watched as friends of mine from high school went on to Notre Dame, Boston College and Villanova. They paid over thirty thousand dollars a year. For what, to get a degree from a school who's name is well known in the fields they wanted to pursue as careers. That is exactly what I did!
3. All I have too say about Freedom Air is that it will always exist in my mind. The pilot list will live in my flight case for ever.
Fire Away,
Mayday.
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