Freedom Air and new hires

[azpilot]

The fact is that these are Mesa pilots who FREELY chose to act in their own best interest by accepting flying designed to undermine the pay and working conditions of the pilot group they were formerly with.

They are willing assistants to an individual who's interest is to build his net-worth on the backs of underpaid employees to the detriment of honest hardworking and deserving americans.

This is denounced by ALPA, the Mesa MEC and all honorable Mesa pilots.

Sadly, there will always be individuals who sell-out the group (and the profession) for the benefit of themselves.

Very well said. JO is a scumbag. If this was a new company with new investors and had no involvement with Mesa it would be a different story. He says it is a seperate company but they are using the Mesa training facilities, piggy backing on the Mesa certificate to start, etc. Total BS.

The industry may be changing towards lower average wages but the current situation is a complete joke. Minimum salary for first year should be around 20k and then quickly go up to around 30k. I don't care what you fly or for whom. The public has the great misconception that all pilots and flight crews are well paid and have cushy schedules. An airline like Freedom is only going to make this worse. If pilots as a whole would not fly for outfits like this they couldn't exist. If they support other airlines be it HP, CAL, whatever the airlines would be forced to pay more for the regionals which feed them. Beating a dead horse I will shut up.

AZPilot

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

to mdog

Mdog, I am a Mesa CRJ CA and I want to urge you to say no to Freedumb Airlines. I know it is easy for me to say this because I have a job, and you want to get your foot in the door of this industry, but it is the right decision. IMHO you would be taking a shortcut that would help you build time and collect a paycheck in the short term, but might hurt you in the long term. I do understand and sympathize with your current predicament, however.

I believe I am correct in saying that IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE A UNION MEMBER OR NOT - IF YOU CROSS A PICKET LINE AND/OR WORK STRUCK WORK - YOU WILL BE A SCAB. People on this bulletin board like to throw around the word SCAB about anyone and everyone (especially Mesa guys) so you might be confused about what a SCAB really is.

For example: if the America West pilots and/or the Mesa pilots go on strike the unions will declare those routes (as America West and Mesa) as struck work. If replacement pilots were to go to work at AWA or Mesa and fly that stuck work then they would be SCABS. Also, if the Freedom pilots fly those routes as America West or America West Express then they would be SCABS - in other words they are working struck work.

The question you need to ask yourself is this: What am I going to do if I am asked to work struck work? Remember you will not have the protection of a union - it will just be you and JonnyO and he is saying you can either become a SCAB or you will be fired. Do you really want to put yourself in that situation? I am not saying it will happen, but if you educate yourself about the situation you will see that it very well could happen.

I wish you well in your career whatever your decision may be.
Spiff

 

[mDog]

Thanks for the words of wisdom vs the rhetoric. Question: What is the difference between a scab and say someone working for a company that has taken over CC Airs old routes?

 

[Sun Devil 2000]

What about an outsider that is hired by Mesa Air Group in the future and assigned to Freedom? Would they be considered a scab as long as they did not fly struck work?

By outisder I mean someone who has no previous connection to Mesa or Mesa Pilot Development.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Freedumb

CCAirs routes are not presently "Struck Work". The pilots of CCAir are not on strike. I think they are all (or nearly all) furloughed and that CCAir will be done away with - sadly. That is the difference. If the pilots at CCAir do go on strike (can you strike when you are furloughed?) they would probably declare their USAirways Express routes as struck work and would request that all pilots honor their strike. Any pilot, whether working as a replacement CCAir pilot, or for any other company which agrees with USAirways to replace CCAir on those routes, is working struck work. Now if CCAir goes out of business then I am not sure how it works from there.

EX: When the pilots at Comair went on strike they declared Comair's routes as struck work. If Mesa had signed an agreement with Delta to replace Comair on those routes, and IF Mesa's pilots agreed to work those flights (the vast majority never would have agreed to this and our union warned our company that we would not work those routes) then that would be an example of working struck work. Mesa did make plans to move into CVG during the strike, but did not have an agreement with Delta - therefore it would not have been a struck work situation. Comair has a huge presence in CVG, but does not LITERALLY own it - yet.

I hope that makes it clear as mud for you.
Spiff

 

[Kingairrick]

mdog

I'm in a simlar situation. I need a flying job, badly... However, I fly (part time) for a company that has a King Air, 2 BE400s and a CitationX. Your basic part 91 operator.

The retired part 91 guys who fly for this company still carry their little "black list." Any time someone approaches us for a job, they check it. If it turns out that Freedom guys are labeled as scabs by ALPA, weather or not it is just, your career is over if you fly for them.

That's the reality, and I agree that it sucks. Bartend if you have to. Preserve your future, and lets change the system when we are part of it.

Just my 2cents.

 

[Kingairrick]

correction

I meant to say retired part 121 guys who fly for us (3 of them)

 

[Jetsnake]

I'm not sure how people feel about freedom air, but I do know the basics. If this is your first airline job, I would go to freedom air w/o hesitation if certain circumstances are met. Now, if current pilots at Mesa are refusing to move to the freedom side, then I would not go. Take a very good look at what ALPA is saying about freedom air, and make your decision based on the facts. Again, I'm not sure exactly what's going on, just my opinion.

Let me quote you;

"I do know the basics"

Grow up "KNOB LIPS" and get a clue, I'll send you box for
X-mas.

"Again, I'm not sure exactly what's going on"

Your right about that one, you have know idea, when you
do, make a intelligent decision and speak properly,
you sound like a Democrat that has never served his
country.

As far as ALPA, what do they have to do with it!

A Freedom Air Pilot will never be allowed on my
aircraft...


Jetsnake

 

[Flydaplane]

Your throwing the scab word around too vaguely. A scab is not someone who flies for Freedom Air.
In the future your saying that if Freedom picks up flying for Amwest or Mesa and if they strike (a lot of ifs here) and if ALPA brands the routes as being struck work, then they would be scabs? Boy if that's the case then the Skywest pilots had better be carefull since they are now flying out of DFW. Isn't Comair doing that too? When ASA goes on strike you can guarantee that Delta will give their routes to Skywest and Comair. Comair's pilots union may be able to get them out of flying the struck work routes, but Skywest's (non-union) pilots won't be able to.
So you guys may as well add the Skywest pilots to your list and maybe even the Comair pilots. Or maybe you should quit threatening people with your black lists and wait and see what happens. In my opinion, which isn't that important anyway, I think JO is an ass, but the argument that anyone who flies for Freedom is a scab just doesn't make sense.
If I was the dude who had just finished the MAPD course I'd take it and then keep applying to other airlines. Ask yourself would I fly for Skywest? Then flying for Freedom (other than the crappy pay, work rules, management, and schedules) would be no different scab wise.

 

[crj579]

Maybe some folks don't realize what just happened at CCAIR. Over 70% of the pilots voted for a contract that contained 900 rates and ALPA national refused to sign it. They are now going to be out of business on Nov. 3rd. I think it could be a preview to what might happen at Mesa. I wouldn't be surprised if ALPA national might just want Mesa and their 900 rates to "go away". Could be why Freedom is getting started.

 

[jetdriven]

I'll tell you why Woerth would not sign the CCAIR TA.
The TA was modified from one that failed earlier by 75%. It was modified in the fact it deleted the no'furlough clause and the stock options plan. It also added an 85,000 LB GTOW jet limit. This includes the CRJ-900.

Here's the ugly part. Their JET rates were LOWER than mesa'a current jet rates (which are already lowest in the industry). Lorger than 50-seat planes carried a 7.5% override.

Ask yourself this, would you ratify an agreement that was FORCED to the CCAIR pilots, having been read the WARN act and recieved furlough notices? Not to mention the MESA DHC-8 PARKED IN THE RAMP DURING VOTING. Also, ratifying a contract that would have CCA pilots making about what mesa pays 50-seats for flying a 90 seater??

folks, the show at CCAIR is far from over. ALPA won the NMB petition for single carrier and they will be integrated into MESA. Why sign a piece of garbage contract forced down your pilots throats when you can get them wrapped into mesa with single-carrier??


Would you sign a contract that has a 10 year CCA pilot making 60$ per hour flying a 900??

 

[bobbysamd]

Hey, Mdog

I suspect, too, that you are an MAPD grad by the type aircraft listed in your profile. I worked at your school years ago and I'm not a real fan of Mesa Airlines. Therefore, I suspect that you're correct that the callback list is worthless. Maybe you've been placed in some kind of a (cess)pool.

I've been pondering this Freedom Air conumdrum. It's plain as day that this is Ornstein's attempt to circumvent the union. On the other hand, are people scabs if they're hired into a non-union shop? I worked in a non-union radio station with someone who was an AFTRA (radio union) member. His previous job was in a union shop. He was regarded as being on on honorable leave because he was now working in a non-union shop. So, you can't say that he was a scab.

A lot of it is perception. People who hear Mr. O's siren song of an "airline job" with Freedom might argue logically that they are not scabs because there is no union, although the rest of Mesa is unionized. However, their logical argument might fall on deaf ears of their peers. That is something to consider for the long run.

If I were you, I'd put Mesa aside for the time being and find some work with which you can build hours. The ten hours of 1900 time means little to the rest of the aviation world. I'd suggest that you get your Commercial Single, if you don't have it already, get your CFI, and instruct. If Mesa calls, fine. You can think about it at that time. In the meantime, get some experience.

Good luck with your plans.