Free speech is a beautiful thing.

[embryflyboy]

Come on Guys Give Peace a chance this whole terrorist thing has only being going on with us since 1970. That only 25 years it took to French 1500 years to surrender enough time that no one wanted to mess with them. The way I see it we need to follow the libs position for only 1475 more years they we will see that they are right!

 

[fugghedabowdit]

So we should have waited until there was proof? Like what? A nuclear attackby Iraq? I fought in Khafji in Desert Storm, saw first hand what kind of neighbor Iraq was under Saddam. You can't tell me the world will not be a safer place without him.

Remember we waited for "proff on 07 DEC 1941...Pearl Harbor.

Remember we waited for "proof" until 11 SEP 2001.

Put the crackpipe down...peace had it's chance, and it failed. Notice that the attacks on London came AFTER they backed down? Some reward for peace.

You must have a closet full of tye dies....

Where's your crackpipe? What "proof" were we waiting for prior to 12/7/41?

What "proof" were we waiting for prior to 9/11?

How has London "backed down"?

This kind of crap is exactly why I no longer consider myself a republican. Your so brainwashed by that chest thumping ideology crap that you fail to stop and see if your making sense. Wrapping yourself in the flag and making references to the glory days of WW2 does not constitute a coherent foreign policy that actually makes us SAFER, which is the #1 duty of our government. This is what they've failed to do since Islamic fundamentalism began back in the 70s and 80s.

 

[JediNein]

As a Rhodes scholar, Bill Clinton wrote this letter, dated December 3, 1969, to Colonel Eugene J. Holmes, Commandant of the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas, detailing how he deceived Col. Holmes in order to dodge the draft. Transcribed from The Congressional Record--House, July 30, 1993, p. H5550.

Text of Bill Clinton's Letter to ROTC Colonel
I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.

First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.

Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.

I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations Oct. 15 and Nov. 16.

Interlock with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."

From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.

The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill and maybe die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true, we are all finished anyway.)

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.

But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent, I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies--there were none--but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.

At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on Sept. 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.

Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Col. Jones for me.

Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton
-----

""WASHINGTON -- After lashing out against Iraq in the midst of the political fight for his life, President Clinton yesterday ended the biggest military action of his presidency, while reserving the right to strike again if Iraq defies the United States. 'I'm confident we have achieved our mission', Mr. Clinton said in a brief address from the White House. He asserted that the United States and Great Britain had inflicted 'significant damage' on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, on the organizations that control them, and on Iraq's ability to harm neighboring nations."

"In halting the attack at around 6 p.m. Eastern time -- just hours after he became only the second commander in chief in U.S. history to be impeached -- Mr. Clinton ended four straight nights of attacks that saw the launch of some 430 cruise missiles and more than 500 missions by American and British pilots."

"The United States and Great Britain began the surprise campaign on Wednesday" just hours before the House of Representatives was to begin its deliberations on impeaching President Clinton."

-----

Where's the "None of the Above" option on the ballot?

 

[FN FAL]

GLTIOH. Sorry, I'm busy watching Iron Chef. People aren't going to spend their own time looking up lawyer talk to prove your point but I dedicate my next Sierra Nevada Pale Ale to Mr. Foul. Peace on earth and kill 'em all.

That's ok...when the apocalypes comes, I'll be eating stupid people for dinner...dumb people, the other white meat.

 

[Traumahawk]

Where's your crackpipe? What "proof" were we waiting for prior to 12/7/41?

What "proof" were we waiting for prior to 9/11?

How has London "backed down"?

This kind of crap is exactly why I no longer consider myself a republican. Your so brainwashed by that chest thumping ideology crap that you fail to stop and see if your making sense. Wrapping yourself in the flag and making references to the glory days of WW2 does not constitute a coherent foreign policy that actually makes us SAFER, which is the #1 duty of our government. This is what they've failed to do since Islamic fundamentalism began back in the 70s and 80s.

Well said. There are a lot of Republicans that are Republicans for where they stand on issues, and the way they see themselves as citizens. This administration has twisted the role, exploited the meaning of republican ideologies etc.. into something completely different. You are one of many I come across that knows the difference.

 

[embryflyboy]

It our turn. You libs have been killing Babies for 20+ years.Is it to much to ask to let us kill some camel jockeys in peace for 5 years

 

[JediNein]

That's ok...when the apocalypes comes, I'll be eating stupid people for dinner...dumb people, the other white meat.

Careful, stupid people are usually high in fat and cholesterol. Ya don't need to raise your blood pressure and clog arteries with them. The skinny ones are all skin and bones, no meat on ‘em at all.

 

[acaTerry]

It our turn. You libs have been killing Babies for 20+ years.Is it to much to ask to let us kill some camel jockeys in peace for 5 years

Excellent point, but nobody wants to touch THAT issue...too controversial. It may inconvenience us. Life at its purest is killed without question, but go to fight for your nation or its interests and the wimps start crying as soon as it gets tough.

Idiots....

 

[KPTO]

DANG ACA Terry you need yor head examine, people like you should not be flying. As for libs killing babies for 30+, what a stupid non-sequitur. You must have gone to the same High School Sean Hannity went.

I knew pilots to be stupid but y'all need some serious help.

 

[Corbon]

It our turn. You libs have been killing Babies for 20+ years.Is it to much to ask to let us kill some camel jockeys in peace for 5 years

Lets just use the term "post-birth abortion" to describe the accidental Iraqi deaths. We all know how liberals love abortions. They'll wrap themselves up in bodybags on the street to protest, the war, then march down to Planned Parenthood and get the coat hanger and vacuum treatment to remove the little "inconvenience" growing inside their body. Oh yeah, a womans right to choose is just sooooo important we have to kill babies to defend it. Hypocrites.