fraud among foreign pilots...a US case

realmanofgenius

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I have come into knowledge based on eyewitness account and actual senority list of a guy at my new job in Asia who has falsified his app. He got an airbus type and pencil whipped all the time..he claims to have worked for a defunct US airline. He works for a regional now and was milking that job for a while unto he was forced to take a medical to finish training here....what do you do? I have knowledge and it is fraud...I am finding that many are just getting types and making up time...I'm shocked but not really..pilots can be an interesting breed..I'm thinking about just turning this over to the agency and let them do their job... need opinion... I'm polling
 

tyuwerty

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Guys like that give all of us expats a bad name.

The only thing worse is being branded as a rat.

Let their training department fish him out. It should be easily apparent to them that he doesn't know the airplane. If they let him through, then you might want to re-think the quality of the airline you are working for.
 

Dumb Pilot

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The problem with this sort of thing is that this individual might trump the opportunity for another pilot from the same company who is legitimate due to the fact that a lot of these companies when they have a very bad experience with someone from company "X" they just don't hire anyone else from that outfit. It is a difficult scenario for sure but the question you should be asking yourself is if it falls on you to be the guardian of the legitimacy of applicants to your company, is that part of your job description?
 

clickclickboom

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I had a friend that i helped get a job at my last employer. I was working in the hiring department and filed a new hire package in the documents room. My friends file was right there so i opened it up to take a look. He had 300 hrs of king air time listed. Ironically that is about what I have in a King Air. He used the time I flew and logged it for himself. He never even set foot in a King Air.. ever...

He hung himself there on an unrelated item and got canned.
 

can99

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a guy I have knowledge of here in India was a pencil whipped fraud , couldnt even use the fms's or close the door (corporate jet) .... but he flew just 30 hrs in his 9 mths as he scared the ******************** out of the owner more than once, who then woke up to the fact he needed to be replaced asap. I was told it was found out out this guy had never flown a jet apart from his type rating training!

These people are accidents waiting to happen, which is scary when innocent lives and futures are at stake.
 

tyuwerty

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And any training department worth a cr@p will wash them out. If they are passed through, you have bigger issues to worry about with the airline you are working for.
 

realmanofgenius

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the air india crash got me thinking..and this question? could I put my wife and kids on this plane with a fraud captain and a low time FO who just got back from basic flight training...
 

typhoonpilot

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I've seen too much of this in my time as an expat. I'd go confront the guy and get his story. If it's an obvious lie and you are 100% sure of it then tell him you will have to report it to management.


Typhoonpilot
 

longhaul

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Be a man and do the right thing.

If the airline were using counterfeit parts, or if the mechanics had no training, wouldn't you report it? Your passengers are real people, with real families, and deserve action on your part.
 

macdu

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Ditto to the last two posts. Been through three checkrides here in Asia. My f/o's are very low time guys. If the guy in the right seat isn't fit to be a captain he needs to be outed. The outfit I fly for, that I will not disclose, is in need of captains badly. I can see them pushing a guy through even if he is weak. Secondly, I don't know this for a fact but I don't think they checked my background at all. Aside from all the documented paperwork I supplied, and, the stack of 6 logbooks, I don't think one reference was phoned, or, former employer, that I know of.
I think a lot of the vetting procedure is suppose to be done by the recruiter. But the recruiter is a used car salesman. "Just fill out the documents for what they are looking for" is the attitude I think with some of these places. Get a guy in the process and see if he passes. That's it.
I know what all of you are thinking so, here it is. All the expats at my company have previous captain time in various types of turbojet aircraft and must have captain time in the 320 series of at least 1000hrs. The aviation world is small. I heard from a friend on the radio the other day. He recognized my voice. We are both flying over a foreign country 7500 miles from home, passing each other. You never know when or who you are going to meet again. Be truthful, honest, sincere, and, respectful to everyone. Especially your flying mates. If you KNOW this guy is bogus call him out. I want my worst day(or my families) to end like Sully's on the river, not like the guy in Buffalo.
 

Dumb Pilot

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the air india crash got me thinking..and this question? could I put my wife and kids on this plane with a fraud captain and a low time FO who just got back from basic flight training...
I agree that these individuals that do this sort of thing (and there are more than a handful out there) put the profession at risk and in the process put's all of us that are working abroad and dedicated to our profession in a bad light, but this is a delicate situation that could be perceived in a wrong way culturally realmanofgenius, you have the best of intentions but if it is misinterpreted it could very well end up hurting you. Before you do anything you should try to get the advice of one of the local pilots that you have befriended and get their perspective as to how to approach this. After all, if there is anything that we have learned out here (insert your country of choice here) is that their logic sometimes doesn't make any sense to us so before you waltz into the chief pilot's office with your "whistle at hand" because we view it as the right thing to do make sure that is the same way they view it.
 
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tyuwerty

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Did you see his application? Do you know what he claims to have. Maybe he is connected and they know he doesn't have time on type.

Have your sources followed this guy through his entire career?

Is he TRULY unsafe?

Can you prove it or are you just going to pass rumours onto your company without any actual proof?

Has your training department passed this guy through their whole training program.

If you go in, you run a better than 50% chance it is going to backfire on you. If you are wrong, you made an enemy of the guy you ratted out. You have also marked yourself with your company and your fellow aviators.

If you are correct then you are basically insulting your training department whether they deserve to be insulted or not. After all, they are the ones responsible for the integrity of their respective airline.

Did the local aviation authority pass this guy? If they did, then see above comment.

If you are dead set on bringing this up and not letting their system work it out. If he is TRULY unsafe, you would be better off putting the bug in a local pilots ear and let them run with it.

Every country has their own culture. Where I have worked, if you didn't bring it up right away. If you waited till after their training. It would blow up in your face more than the guilty party's.

I have seen this numerous times with my own eyes. These types of people usually get knocked out of training on their own.

If you are going to attack a guys lively hood and create a huge problem for your company, you better be D@MN sure you have got the proof to back up your accusations.
 
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tyuwerty

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One last thought: Remember you are most likely dealing with a developing country, not a country with western ideals. What do you do if they decide to ignore you and your information? You have just made yourself a liability in their eyes.

Again, if you decide to move with this, you had better have all your info in order. Pretty hard to prove that he DID NOT work for a defunct carrier.
 

realmanofgenius

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here's the deal...the guy was running his mouth from day one....one would think he'd be more discreet.....have verified with several ex pilots, he wasn't there, never heard of him...i have a copy of a senority list..in my view, the allegation has been corroborated with two witnesses and a document .i think this problem is more serious than i imagined since there is no vetting procedure....some of these can fly and pass a checkride, but to be so bold and do this to keep getting ahead is beyond me....we all live by certain standards....I personally couldn't do it....
 

tyuwerty

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Be a man and do the right thing.

If the airline were using counterfeit parts, or if the mechanics had no training, wouldn't you report it? Your passengers are real people, with real families, and deserve action on your part.
LMFAO! I think this guy is talking about China. Who are you going to tell about counterfeit parts in China?? The whole country is built on counterfeiting. Tell the FAA? I am sure they care what some podunk airline in the middle of China is doing. Tell the Chinese authorities, they probably run the factory.

Real man,

Neither could I, these guys give us a bad name and they make it harder for those of us that have worked for our time.

If you think you will get a civilised response for your interaction, you are dreaming. You aren't in the civilised world anymore. Americans by and large believe that everyone operates on the same level, this is not the case. Factor in culture, national status, religion and history, that makes for an interesting cocktail.

Unless you are working for a big name international carrier, I am betting you will end up with the short end of the stick.

You aren't in Kansas anymore. Don't transpose your values on other cultures. Fly your people safe, do your job safe, get home safe. That is your responsibility. Unless they hired you into management or training, they want you to fly their airplanes, not to inspect and revamp their whole system.
 

longhaul

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LMFAO! I think this guy is talking about China. Who are you going to tell about counterfeit parts in China?? The whole country is built on counterfeiting. Tell the FAA? I am sure they care what some podunk airline in the middle of China is doing. Tell the Chinese authorities, they probably run the factory.
Counterfeit parts was just a hypothetical example, but in that case I would probably start by filing form F145-5, Un-airworthy condition report, with the CAAC. www.caac.gov.cn If I was afraid of reprisals, I would do it anonymously. If that didn't work I would contact the airframe or engine manufacturer. But the point is that I would do SOMETHING.
It's like this guy said:

"I flew thousands of flights in the last forty-two years, but my entire career is now being judged by how I performed on one of them. This has been a reminder to me: We need to do the right thing every time, to perform at our best, because we never know which moment in our lives we'll be judged on." Sullenberger, Chesley B. Highest Duty, HarperCollins, 2009, p.313






 
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