Fractionals retirement plans

[BengalsFan]

I realize a lot of people are going to comment about retirements and flying positions, but I'd just like to know what people think about the different plans, so if we could hold off on the "you'll never retire from a flying position" comments, that would be greatly appreciated.

That being said, how good are the retirement plans?

FlexJet has a 1% A plan... what would that be after a 20 year career there?

Flex also matches up to 6% on the 401k... is this an overall better plan than NetJets with their 401k match of 50c/$1, up to 15%?

And obviously Fight Options and Citation Shares don't even qualify to debate since they are both significantly worse than either of these 2 options.

I'm really interested in peoples opinions on this, especially what the Flex A plan potentially could be worth.

Thanks

 

[cush]

Flex also matches up to 6% on the 401k... is this an overall better plan than NetJets with their 401k match of 50c/$1, up to 15%?

7.5% is better than 6%.

 

[BengalsFan]

Cush... yes 7.5% is better than 6%... but Flex also has a 1% A plan that goes with their 6% match to a 401k... so does this additional 1% in Flex's A plan make it better than NetJets 7.5 in only a 401k match? Basically I am wondering what Flex's 1% A plan will equate to when you retire in 20-30years?

 

[vixin]

1% x Final average earnings( lets say $100,000) x years of service= amount of yearly retirement.

So 1% x $100,000 x 30 years= $30,000 per year until you die.

They also match 20% on stock purchased through the employee stock purchase plan. You buy $100 worth they buy $20 for you and put it into your account. You can elect 0-20% of your paycheck for stock.

 

[gunfyter]

That sounds better than NJA's 401K

 

[BengalsFan]

Vixin

Thank you for the educational response!

Does flex have a lump sum payment option?

 

[Grizz]

NetJets 401(k) is 50% up to the legal limit of employee contribution. In 2005, that was $14000. The 15% doesn't apply anymore. I just got my "true-up" match taking it to $7000.

The one thing you must remember about the Flex vs NetJets plan is that I own mine once I'm fully vested. A defined benefit plan like Flex offers with their 1% can be taken away at any time. Look at all the un-funded plans in existance in the airline business if you have any doubts.

 

[gunfyter]

I did not forget that Griz. No doubt it would be taken away before I could retire. Its happening everywhere.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Get the cash, convert it to krugs, and bury it in the back yard. They can't touch that (wait, can they??)...........

For our little fractional, I'm very happy with the 401K. I figure 50% return on my money is not bad for one year plus (minus) whatever I make (lose) with the funds. I didn't know that Netjets was that good a deal, wow. How long to become fully vested at Netjets?

 

[vixin]

The lump sum is only done when the amount is below a certain dollar figure.

 

[ashaman]

NetJets 401(k) is 50% up to the legal limit of employee contribution. In 2005, that was $14000. The 15% doesn't apply anymore. I just got my "true-up" match taking it to $7000.

The one thing you must remember about the Flex vs NetJets plan is that I own mine once I'm fully vested. A defined benefit plan like Flex offers with their 1% can be taken away at any time. Look at all the un-funded plans in existance in the airline business if you have any doubts.

Griz, am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying that NetJets will match 50% of my 401k contribution without limit up to the federal contribution limit (no 15% limit)?

I thought they only matched 50% of the first 15% of contribution and that the rest goes unmatched.

Thanks!

 

[gunfyter]

Yes you got Griz right.

 

[Swaayze]

How long to vest at NJA, and does the company match start right away?

You are crazy if you're at (or headed to) Flex and counting on the defined benefit plan IMO....

 

[LostComm]

Never mind.

 

[Grizz]

6 years completed service to be fully vested.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

So 1% x $100,000 x 30 years= $30,000 per year until you die.

.

1% x crappy pay x 30years of crapy treatment = really crappy way to spend your life at flex!

 

[vixin]

Just answering a simple question there 400x. No need to quote me on it. I am all for new hires not coming here. I dont think anyone should come work for Flex. I agree with what you said though.

 

[flexpilot]

1% x Final average earnings( lets say $100,000) x years of service= amount of yearly retirement.

So 1% x $100,000 x 30 years= $30,000 per year until you die.

They also match 20% on stock purchased through the employee stock purchase plan. You buy $100 worth they buy $20 for you and put it into your account. You can elect 0-20% of your paycheck for stock.

Hey Vixin why not say 1% X 200,000 x 30 years of service? That would give you $60,000 till you die. Better yet 1% X 1 million X 30 years of service, that would give you $300,000 till you die.

How about a dose of reality. Only a very few flexjet pilots are making $100,000 at retirement. Only a very few will make it to 30 years.

Today the average starting age at Flexjet is probably 35+. Most won't hang around for more than two years. If you quit early..... you only take your 401K and Bombardier stock.


Now a real question. Tell me what a pilot would get if he started at FLexJet on day one in 1995 and retired today after 11 years?

Lets talk about reality, not fantasy!

 

[vixin]

It was an example you moron, just that nothing else. So just relax. That is reality, that is what the plan is TODAY!! Many would like to see the pension gone and more towards the 401k. Once again though for those that are to slow to understand. I answered a simple question AND THATS IT. He asked I ANSWERED. He can ask me anything esle. I will do my best to answer it honestly. Here is some reality I think flex missed the boat on the comp package.

My guess would be $8000-10,000 per year.

 

[Wyatt]

"Fractional Retirement Plans"?

Are you kidding? They dont intend to retire us. Their intent is to work us till we are totally used up then discard us like old shoes. They make money on the "if you dont want the job, we have thousands who want your seat" theory.

The rich get richer and we slave to make it so...

BA HA HA HA HA HA ! :laugh:

 

[vixin]

Wyatt,

I agree, that is why we get grease for crew meals. That way we will die before we reach 60/65. We will kill them with food. Thats the companies retirement plan.

 

[Galaxy]

My personal Fractional retirement plan...

When I was hired at one of the sweatshops in Ohio I knew life would be tough. I was willing to jump into this thing called fraction indentured servitude. When I watched some of my brothers who had a nice pension plan get merged then only to be bought back but into the "other" catagory on the P&L sheets. Those guys still don't have thier pensions back. I decided to take things into my own hands.
I call it FSLVRP!(Fractional Stock Locker Vending Retirement Plan)
I know it sounds like the latest Harley Davidson off the line but hear this- Its even better!
I have taken these wonderful fuel incentive cards I got and sold my old phone cards to tourists and put down payments on a few full size vending machines. I go into major businesses and tell them my poor sob story and even show them pictures of the creators of FOPA and the operations they had (spinal ectomy) (removal of the back bone)<-for you non medical folks-to make them feel sorry for me. Now evey time I go out on the road I stock up on all the latest items to fill my vending machines with thier wonder bounty! I use this change to put into an account for my retirement in the future and I also use it to pay my co-pays at the Dr's office. I am in the $$$$$$$ now. I like to think of it as 100% company vested pension plan.
Now go get off the computer and check your mailbox the NMB might have a letter in there for you.. Go Vote YES to IBT1108!
-for those of you reading this....if you think I am serious about this stuff..then I have a fractional airline to sell you cheap!