fractionals' future

[Starman]

Ever notice that the long list of company supporters and doom prognosticaters all have registered on this forum since the TA failed? We've got a ton that have shown up in the past 30 days to tell us how unrealistic we are. What a bunch of tools.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Ever notice that the long list of company supporters and doom prognosticaters all have registered on this forum since the TA failed? We've got a ton that have shown up in the past 30 days to tell us how unrealistic we are. What a bunch of tools.

No, I would use the term TOOLS to describe those members of the union that go on a public board to b1tch about the company, try and sling union propaganda around to convince other company employees to support their rantings, and then express surprise when the other employees dont support them.

If you want to b1tch, fine, but do it on your own union board. nobody else wants to hear it.

If you come on a public board and complain dont be surprised when people point out the falsehoods and half-truths. Its these actions that cause other people to register on the boards so that they can counter your rantings.

 

[some_dude]

Isn't it a rather large premium, though? More than double the typical block charter rate from any other charter operator.

I know, you only pay for occupied legs, but even factoring that in it still looks to be much more expensive for most uses.

If the fractional industry goes more toward block charter, will that bring the jet card rates down to be more in line with the traditional charter industry?

Just wondering...

With card programs there is no large capital outlay, no vagaries of residual value based on market conditions, and no forced interest in a company that is managing and sharing your expensive asset for you - less hassle for a small premium.

 

[AA717driver]

I think the frac/card business will boom in the coming years. Anyone who travels by airline can understand why someone who doesn't HAVE to do that will go frac/card.

I personally don't see the NJA contract paying $125k/year. But I certainly don't think they should make what they are now. But WTFDIK, I've been wrong about most things I've predicted so far in my career...

NJA won't fire them or let them strike. JMO.TC

 

[CandyMan]

It is illegal for a company to fire a unionized group of employees. This won't happen.


They may however be able to shut down and crank up as a non union company and ask the pilots to work for the new company. If this happens I don't see many pilots crossing the picket lines at NJA.

 

[Kingairrick]

It is illegal for a company to fire a unionized group of employees. This won't happen.


They may however be able to shut down and crank up as a non union company and ask the pilots to work for the new company. If this happens I don't see many pilots crossing the picket lines at NJA.

I didn't know that it was illegal. I was thinking of the controller strike back in the 80s where Reagan fired them all and hired new ones. They were federal employees. Maybe that's the difference?

Just my .02, I believe that there will always be scabs who will cross the lines. This opinion is based upon the history of airline strikes. I know it seems crazy to cross the line for the pay they would get, but there are pilots out there who just want to fly airplanes without props at any cost...

 

[Starman]

If you want to b1tch, fine, but do it on your own union board. nobody else wants to hear it.

Actually, the pilots out there thinking about applying here are very interested in our posts. Seeing as how the pilot recruitment office can't get anywhere near enough qualified applicants, our posts are being effective in reaching the people we want to reach. They see through the obvious ploy of one or two company management folks registering multiple screen names on here.

 

[transpac]

I didn't know that it was illegal. I was thinking of the controller strike back in the 80s where Reagan fired them all and hired new ones. They were federal employees. Maybe that's the difference?

It's illegal for a federal employee to go on strike, and the controllers were fired for breaking a federal law. In the Netjets case, a strike would be legal as long as the RLA process is followed. But, nothing says the company can't lock out the strikers and hire replacement workers until the strike is settled. This could be forever if they can find enough scabs.

 

[El Chupacabra]

But, nothing says the company can't lock out the strikers and hire replacement workers until the strike is settled. This could be forever if they can find enough scabs.

This would appear to be their plan.

 

[transpac]

el chup,

That might be their plan. But, I'm not sure how many new hires will cross the line for a what will likely be a temporary job (but a permanent title) for Netjets wages. UAL offered scabs $75,000 twenty years ago and didn't get many takers.

 

[avbug]

Actually, the pilots out there thinking about applying here are very interested in our posts. Seeing as how the pilot recruitment office can't get anywhere near enough qualified applicants, our posts are being effective in reaching the people we want to reach. They see through the obvious ploy of one or two company management folks registering multiple screen names on here.

I don't know about that. I frequent the board regularly, and haven't a clue who is who in your organization, so far as screen names go.

I wouldn't come to work for netjets, though I've had several friends suggest it, who work there. It has nothing to do with you reaching me or me finding out about all the horrible little things you think the company is doing to you. I don't even disagree with your comments or protests...it has nothing to do with any of that.

The reason I would never work for netjets/EJA is the poor attitudes. I've never met a group who is so constantly bitter, who can't talk about anything else than being oppressed. Get in a shuttle from a FBO with a netjets crew, you'll hear it all the way to the hotel. Walk into a signature and listen to the bitching from across the room. It's incessant, constant, sickening.

I passed through APA recently and stopped by Signature. I walked in the door from the flightline and heard a group of pilots gathered by the front counter, loudly bemoaning their company, clearly very bitter, clearly very disgruntled, clearly, clearly unhappy. I thought to myself, that's probably a herd of NJA pilots hating life, a fixture that one can almost anticipate before walking in the door...and to my disappointment, I was right. Perhaps you just love the hard life, if that's what you really have...but when I don't like where I am, I either change it as you're apparently attempting to do, or I move to a place I do like.

Life is too short to be as bitter as all of you seem, all the time. Do you enjoy the bitterness, or have you been this way long enough that you no longer recognize how corrosive and unseemly it is?

When I think of NJA pilots, and other fractionals with the same problems, I can't help but think of the little character on the monty python show standing in the field yelling, "help, help, I'm being oppressed!"

I wouldn't come to netjets because I don't want to be around you. Lots of us have worked in far, far worse conditions, yet didn't complain a fraction of what you do. Good luck in achieving whatever it is that you hope you can achieve (I died laughing reading your private web board postings about deserving three hundred thousand dollars to fly a citation, by the way)...just shut up about it and do it.

Is that too much to ask??

 

[El Chupacabra]

Saving one person from misery makes it all worthwhile...

 

[cosmotheassman]

Avbug

Avbug,

Amen brotha! When I go into FBO's and I see a yellow tie and a union lanyard, I steer clear because I know inevitably what is going to be talked about. And maybe that is part of the problem, it's only being "talked about". I too am so sick and tired of hearing the bitching. It reminds me of a quote from planes,trains, and automobiles..

"you're like a chatty kathy doll..."

 

[Geronimo4497]

Go figure, we are off the topic, again, stolen by pissed NJA folks. Wans't this whole section, according to the main page, supposed to be about interviews? But now that I'm typing, I will digress:

There are always a few out of the majority in any group that only want to complain. This is, unfortunatly, just a fact of life. The majority of people, and I'm not a NJA pilot, just want to do their job and know that they did all they could do to be safe.

None of us will get rich from this business. To use a cheesy line: You won't get rich working for the man, you have to BE the man.

I just don't understand all of this bitterness. WHY DON'T YOU JUST QUIT??? Are you trying to stick it to the big man? Will getting fired prove your point? As far as saying 'they can't fire us', they can surely shut the company down and start a new one from one week to the next.

It will be a very interesting next couple of months.

 

[buttercup]

I don't know about that. I frequent the board regularly, and haven't a clue who is who in your organization, so far as screen names go.

I wouldn't come to work for netjets, though I've had several friends suggest it, who work there. It has nothing to do with you reaching me or me finding out about all the horrible little things you think the company is doing to you. I don't even disagree with your comments or protests...it has nothing to do with any of that.

The reason I would never work for netjets/EJA is the poor attitudes. I've never met a group who is so constantly bitter, who can't talk about anything else than being oppressed. Get in a shuttle from a FBO with a netjets crew, you'll hear it all the way to the hotel. Walk into a signature and listen to the bitching from across the room. It's incessant, constant, sickening.

I passed through APA recently and stopped by Signature. I walked in the door from the flightline and heard a group of pilots gathered by the front counter, loudly bemoaning their company, clearly very bitter, clearly very disgruntled, clearly, clearly unhappy. I thought to myself, that's probably a herd of NJA pilots hating life, a fixture that one can almost anticipate before walking in the door...and to my disappointment, I was right. Perhaps you just love the hard life, if that's what you really have...but when I don't like where I am, I either change it as you're apparently attempting to do, or I move to a place I do like.

Life is too short to be as bitter as all of you seem, all the time. Do you enjoy the bitterness, or have you been this way long enough that you no longer recognize how corrosive and unseemly it is?

When I think of NJA pilots, and other fractionals with the same problems, I can't help but think of the little character on the monty python show standing in the field yelling, "help, help, I'm being oppressed!"

I wouldn't come to netjets because I don't want to be around you. Lots of us have worked in far, far worse conditions, yet didn't complain a fraction of what you do. Good luck in achieving whatever it is that you hope you can achieve (I died laughing reading your private web board postings about deserving three hundred thousand dollars to fly a citation, by the way)...just shut up about it and do it.

Is that too much to ask??

If you had friends suggest that you work at Netjets they arent true friends!!

 

[Kingairrick]

I just found out that I have a trip to SFO tomorrow. That's right Signature. I'm either going to have to bring some cheese or wear earplugs to block out the whine...It's like High School in that lounge nowdays.

 

[English]

I've never met a NJ pilot on the road that didn't talk SOLELY about their contract woes. I kinda feel sorry for them. The morale there is as bad, if not worse, than Eagle. I wonder how much worse it will get this summer.

 

[guido411]

You know, I've talked with many NJA pilots that have taken the initiative to ask about FLOP's organizing effore before saying word ONE about their own contract. Most often times the NJA guys are talking about their contract it's because some 135 operator asked them about it. Possibly because they WANT to do fractional work but want somebody else to go thru the pain and suffering of making it a good "career". For those of you that posted saying you had done worse work for less pay etc. my bet is that you weren't planning on doing it for a long time. Maybe at a job flying crap equipment for crap pay. We've all done that. The difference is NJA, FLOPs pilots etc. can all see that this COULD be a viable career instead of a stepping stone, like flying a Lear 23 at night. Therefore we are willing to do something about it rather than jump ship. I applaud NJA in their efforts to stand up for what they believe and for extending their aid to FLOPs in making this a large community with a bright future.

I'd like to add, that when you critical folks walk in to the FBO and see a "yellow tie" complaining about something, remember this. Pilots, collectively, are some of the best whiners you could ever meet (frax, 135, 91, etc). They're not doing anything you haven't done before. Show me a pilot that doesn't complain and I'll show you an ostrich with its head buried in the sand.

 

[guido411]

My apologies to the original threat starter, last post was off topic but needed to be said, IMHO.

Not that I know any better than anyone else but my thoughts on jet cards are: growing but still a VERY small percentage of core business (1-5%); most expensive option; ownership has certain advantages (taxes, assets, etc); jet cards will continue to be a gateway into ownership. Give a person a sample at Baskin Robbins, if it's good you can bet you'll sell by the gallon.

 

[Diesel]

You know what enough of this crap. NJA pilots have stated our position yeah you know why you hear it everyday because we are everywhere. Enough of you guys bashing us and enough of you bitching about us.

I've said my piece about where I stand on the 135 scab issue but you guys coming here just trashing us is not right. You know it and i know it. ENOUGH