Fractional questions

[Twotter76]

Thank you all for the intelligent responses - now some further questions if I haven't bored you all yet. What are competitive mins at at each respective company - I think I meet (exceed actually) the published mins for all of them but we all know that those are not the real numbers. Can anyone give me an idea of what the real mins are? Secondly how flexible are they in where you live? I saw that NJ has many domicles listed but can you change between them at your leisure or do there have to be openings in that particular domicle? How do the other two operate crew basing? Thanks again

Twotter76

 

[xrated]

Any fractional is not a career job....

Amen to that! Fractional flying is a very good 3-4 year job, and it is a descent place for retired airline folks to stretch it out a few more years. You should be able to keep your sanity in that length of time. Coming from a Regional, you will love the varitety of flying, may or may not love the plane you fly, though it will probably be more cramped. Plus you are treated fairly well......for a 3-4 year job. Hotels will be nicer, crew meals are usually pretty good, and the airline plus hotel points can make for a descent family vacation every year. But for those of us who have done it for more than a few years, the novilty wears off.

As for being competitive. If you've been at a regional for more than a couple years, you probably are competitive. But your chances of an interview increase substantially if you know sombody on the inside. I believe your chances at Options are pretty much nill if you don't have a connection. You might have a better chance at Netjets as their reputation has been raked over the coals in rescent months with the contract issues they've had. (before I get flamed though, I think they have much more potential than the rest) I'd say the domicile issue is as flexable as any in the industry...a big plus, but it does have its limits and it differs from company to company. It seemed to be a big issue during the rescent Netjet contract talks, so who knows what the future has in store with them?

Sombody asked about average flight time, I have no idea but I'm guessing it differs drastically from fleet to fleet.

Hope this helps.

 

[Texasskicker]

My two bits worth on the subject

I been around long enough, wantin to share with ya some wisdum.

Go in with yer eyes open, kid.

Beware of the schedule bait and switcheroo. Yea, if ya get 7 and 7, some weeks yer gonna work 10 days - 11 days whether ya want to or not. Gonna be asked to do overtime and ifin ya dont, gonna be no star next to yer name.

Start learnin to kiss some ass, cause unless you work for a union carrier, gotta climb the buddy system ladder and kiss many butts along the way to make it.

Reality check and talk to some of the guys in here who know the real inside story.

Good luck, son.

 

[Xdriver]

Ok I'll play been at NJA for almost 4 years. I came from a large regional where the upgrade was 5+ years. Is this better? no question to me yes. For everything negative I can find some positives to fractional flying. NJA has 28 crew bases that you can choose. If you wish to change bases all the company need's is 30 days notice. This can be done every month if you wish. Some pilots do this like say south FL in the winter (PBI) then go back to (MSP) in the summer. You said you wanted out west NJA has SAN,LAX,PHX,SLC,SEA,SFO,APA,LAS as bases out west.

Competitive time for NJA? From what I am hearing in new hire classes its been around 5,000 TT. Some are way more some are less. NJA is unlike no other place that is hiring they can pick who they want now. I will tell you it helps to know the right people here. If you know any NJA pilots get them to help you out.

New contract? The MEC election is Dec 22nd. No doubt the old MEC is out and a new aggressive MEC is in. It will be spring at least before anything is possible to get a vote on. It will all depend on the company. I know the future MEC is ready to roll day 1 in office. Im not going to tell you everything is ok here at NJA now either. This pilot group is very determined to see this contract thru to get the best possible deal. Anyone who has seen or talked to a NJA pilot knows the TA was so bad it was voted down by 83%. I dont fault the company. I fault our past MEC who had zero experiance at this and rolled over on just about everything. Ok enough about that!

I would be happy to field phone calls about NJA (just PM me) I wont sugar coat it. I wont try and sell it. It is what it is. I will say this I have several good friends that have been at options for 4-6 years. They have nothing, notta, zero good to say about the place ANYMORE. They all say it used to be good. Everytime they turn around options management is changing something or takeing something away.

At NJA good or bad we at least have a union. We have something in writting (now I lol because lots of times the company trys to violate the contract) but thats where the pilot comes in. One must know the contract not to be walked on. It is an education process just like SWA FEDEX AWA whoever its your responsibiliey to know your contract!

Oh and I think someone asked how much do we fly. Well in the CE-750 we fly our ass off. 2 years ago I did 700+ in one year. NJA has some planes that work more then others. If you want to fly and fly alot get into the X (honest if your have a good bird YOU WILL fly everyday) If you want to sit around and do nothing get the H-1000 or CE-650. The guys on the XL work alot to but some never get west of the misissippi for months. Dont know about the beechjet 400 because they just were delivered.

anyway hopes this helps questions PM me.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Can anyone give me an idea of what the real mins are? Secondly how flexible are they in where you live? I saw that NJ has many domicles listed but can you change between them at your leisure or do there have to be openings in that particular domicle? How do the other two operate crew basing? Thanks again

Twotter76

According to the NJA website, mins are 2500 TT, 500 fixed-wing ME, 250 instrument (which can be actual and simulated combined). The biggie for you might be that they require an ATP, as well as current 1st Class medical. I asked during the interview about the ATP requirement and it is a stipulation from their insurer, so it can't be waived. As for what's competitive, it's hard to say. What seems to matter is having an internal recommendation if you're lower time. The average NJA new-hire has approx. 5700 TT but I had less than that and I know several other new hires with even less time than me.

As for NJA bases, right now there are a bunch and you get to designate your own, there isn't a "bid system" for that. In Indoc, you simply state what your domicile is going to be, which is pretty darn nice after coming from an airline background.

 

[Publishers]

While everyone has a point, the thing is that all the fractionals are starting to level off from the times when they were really expanding. ?The deal at Flight Options being an example of that.

When everyone was just glad to have a job flying a few years back and being constantly upgraded to something bigger/quicker/faster, things seemed great. Now that has come to an end, there is bound to be more disgruntled pilots.

It is a good place for a pilot but only time will tell how good it can or will be. They are under tremendous pressure to perform both for shareholders and owners.

 

[Diesel]

Publishers- Why do you even troll here. You never got to play in the game. Just sit behind a desk while you tell everyone about this or that. When in reality you could never pull it off yourself. Couldn't handle life on the road? Or maybe the flying was too much for you? We've got a guy like that at NJA scared himself in a plane and can't fly again. Hmmmm sounds just like you. Get off the boards it's painful.

To clear up a few things at NJA. Texas says that he knows people working 10 days plus? That would never happen at NJA. Unless you choose to but if you extend your just helping the company and hurting yourself. It's black and white. After a 7 day tour they have to get you home. Period.

From what I hear they are hiring guys with the bare minimums. Turns out the pool that the company yapped about so long dried up. I know a buddy of mine hired with min time and and a rec.

As for if this company is a long term place to work. Don't ask me today.... Maybe tomorrow would be better.

 

[Hawkered]

Publishers, the only thing that has levelled off, or even declined is your career!

I often wonder whether other posts here are put as flame bait to defame the industry leader.

Netjets is doing extremely well. I was just contacted by a salesman as a personal thanks for sealing a deal on a large cabin jet with a highly discerning client. The same client has already referred another demo and its only been three days!!!

Mr Santulli and Marquis are collectively a bunch of geniuses!! I wish I had their insight.

Netjets has enormous projections for growth. The manufacturers are looking forward to some very strong sales growth here in the near future and the most conservative growth shows us adding another 450 pilots for 2005!!

 

[Diesel]

Heck hawkered we've allready added 250 pilots in the last 3 months.

A CS guy said they were doubling their pilot fleet by adding 125 next year. I said yeah we added 250 in the last 3 months. What's your point?

 

[Hawkered]

Couldn't agree with you more. So much for "levelling off".