** Fractional, could just happen **

[trainerjet]

Thanks for the post! Maybe it will improve someone's chances of getting a job there! Someone who doesn't mind working for a living in exchange for flying brand new jets.

That's the same logic that people b!tch about constantly on here as to why regional pilot pay is $19/hr.

"But hey, I get to fly a brand new jet!"

Maybe some people have more self-respect that to be sh!t on constantly just to "fly a brand new jet". I guess at NetJets, the $19/hr is replaced by $37k/yr. Same deal, though. WAY below what it should be. But hey. You get to fly a brand new jet.

 

[Live4flyng]

Trainerjet

Speaking of D--khed responses, what an arrogant ass you are!

Did you know that NJA is unionized and is getting close to a new contract? I'm sure the airline you work for never had to bargain for anything you have. You were more than likely offered $150k/year from day one with all the work rules and benefits in place.

Typical response from someone who already "Has Theirs"! When times get tough and your company threatens to furlough or liquidate assets, guys like you would be the first to sell out one of your brothers/sisters.

Save your B.S. for that newly hired MD-80 FO who is naive enough to listen to it.

 

[BigFlyr]

That's the same logic that people b!tch about constantly on here as to why regional pilot pay is $19/hr.

"But hey, I get to fly a brand new jet!"

You're absolutely right! I really didn't mean to compare pilot pay at a fractional vs a regional. I know the pay sucks at most regionals but for many young and single pilots out there it's their first jet experience and by all the stats, the majors still prefer to hire from the regionals vs any other pilot group, military not included. I myself have never worked for a typical regional because I could never afford it!

The point I was trying to make in my previous post was that for those who don't mind the extra work involved in fractional type of flying, cleaning the airplane, catering, putting it to bed, etc... It's not a bad gig, and pay is bound to improve as the industry grows.

 

[Dep676]

I suppose trainerjet you are the "Aviation God" because you fly the same routes every day or every month. That's real experience I suppose. You could probably brief the approach and the airport layout for every airport you frequent on all your trips without even looking at the chart. If that is what you call experience then I guess you are the king. I would call that complancent and boring. Money is everything if you aren't happy at what your doing then the money doesn't mean a thing. So just keep your qlorified "bus driver" job and be happy at flying the same routes and to the same airports the rest of your life. That is until the airline you are working at goes under or your get furloughed. Remember though don't apply to the fractional because you won't be able to handle change. You might actually have to brief an approach that you never ahd to shoot before. Or God forbid that your schedule gets changed in the middle of the night. By the way thanks for the compliment.

 

[furlough-boy]

I suppose trainerjet you are the "Aviation God" because you fly the same routes every day or every month. That's real experience I suppose. You could probably brief the approach and the airport layout for every airport you frequent on all your trips without even looking at the chart. If that is what you call experience then I guess you are the king. I would call that complancent and boring. Money is everything if you aren't happy at what your doing then the money doesn't mean a thing. So just keep your qlorified "bus driver" job and be happy at flying the same routes and to the same airports the rest of your life. That is until the airline you are working at goes under or your get furloughed. Remember though don't apply to the fractional because you won't be able to handle change. You might actually have to brief an approach that you never ahd to shoot before. Or God forbid that your schedule gets changed in the middle of the night. By the way thanks for the compliment.

Maybe you shouldn't comment on how much better fractional flying is until you've done both. Only two pilots have ever told me that they never had any interest in airline flying. They were both corporate guys that had never done it. I've done both and I have to agree with Rocker that if you want to work twice as hard for a fraction of the money than fractional is the way to go. Good luck

 

[Semore Butts]

Hold the phone

Here we go again.

I have done both, though briefly, I did get a taste of the 121 side, and I have worked at 2 fractionals.

The fractional busines has it's perks that the airlines don't as well as visa versa for sure.

As I said in a recent post, hopefully, we will all get to choose where we want to be in the future.

The fractional business is relatively new and is growing in popularity every day.

Even within the same company, attitudes can very depending on which fleet you are in. I like my fractional job, I liked my other fractional job, but I worked alot harder there. Guys I know in other fleets here work alot harder then I do.

That whole situation will help me to move up the seniority list and be allowed to bid different aircraft in the future. Many pilots senior to me have not been to the airlines, and the lure of the "big money" will send them on their way. Whether they will have made the right decision for them, well, time will tell ( I always seem to find myself saying that).

The fractional flying is alot more fun I think, except for the part about "poking" and "partying" with the flight attendants. (then again, I'm married so that's not really a big factor, and I'm not saying that every airline pilot is out there cheating on their spouses)

To you "furlough boy", your name says alot, sorry.

The fractional industry seems to be coming into it's own on what the pilots do and the pay they deserve, on the other hand the airlines seem to be cramming as many people on the Regional jets that they can in order to haul more people and pay the pilot about the same or less then a fractional pilots. (In most fractional cases, it's less)

I see all these orders for RJ's, which tells me that this practice is gonna continue.

I will say this, as a passenger going to work, riding on a "Jungle jet" for 2 and 1/2 hours reeks havoc on the ass for sure! Hopefully the traveling publics' opinion will change this more towards they way "it used to be".

 

[AppBrookie]

I spent 10 years at the airlines(7yrs at a decent regional and just over 3 at a major), currently at a "major" Fractional on a very high performance a/c. Words cannot describe how thankful I am to have this job in today's environment and I bust my butt workin to hang on to it. However, I will not make a lifelong career out of this: #1 reason is rest: It's not unusual to work till 2-3 am and then rest to be put on a totally opposite side of the clock schedule, it's much worse than doing stand-ups(continuous duty overnights) or red-eyes at the airlines. #2 Pay:
the utilization that they get out of us is unbelievable, we should be making at least 2-3 times what we are making for the amount of work we do, the limo drivers that drop our people off planeside make more than a majority of our captains. #3 Seniority: there's nothing to look forward to as you become more senior, except for a few more peanuts, no better schedule except the 7/7(which if you have a family is little too long in the tooth), as said before seniority means nothing on the road.
I have yet to meet anyone at a fractional with a background at a part 121, especially a major that would not jump at the chance at returning and not just for the obvious financial reasons.
On the plus side, we do stay in some very,very nice hotels, but just give me a decent, clean room and half of the cash from the savings.
We all know that the grass is greener, but if you are at a decent regional flying good equipment, give it some deep thought before making the jump.
Just speaking the truth, to each his own.

 

[MotoX]

You must be in either the Ten or Ultra!

 

[JetPilot500]

After reading this entire thread, all I can says is that it is very sad to see how UN-happy so many people are with their career.

If you are working the EJA 7/7 schedule, that means you are unhappy about 50% of your life! That cannot be healthy!

In all seriousness, maybe some of these people need to consider a Happier/Heathly Career.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500


P.S. Try Reading: "Who Moved My Cheese?"

 

[hawkercpt]

Kenn?

Is that you?

 

[Stickshaker]

Rocker's in Right Field

ROCKER,

Why are you so angry? Be happy Dude, you have a good job during bad times.
We could sit here and argue about 121 vs. NJA all night long but there's no need to because the answer is very easy. It's all about the individual and there life. I have been with two 121 Airlines and two corporate jobs. As much as Rocker hates life at NJA, I love it even more. Any major could call me tomorrow for a job and I would say No Thank you. For me and my family the joy of not having to jumpseat and get into an old airport car to go to a crash pad on my day off is worth it all by itself. Now again, I don't want to get into the argument about who is better because life is different for all.
Unlike Rocker, I will tell you about NJA honestly without slamming them.
oh yeah, one more thing. I have sat on many beaches and at home while getting paid Rocker. I could give you a list of many great overnights that have lasted more than two days

 

[ductleak]

Re: Rocker's in Right Field

This is exactly the reason that I am trying to get to NETJETS. It is all about family and being around them more. Yes, I know that I will be gone for long stretches but, not having to sit reserve and commute and pay for a crashpad... well, enough said... Thanks for the replies! I appreciate your input and keep debating on this topic. I am learning a lot!

ROCKER,

Why are you so angry? Be happy Dude, you have a good job during bad times.
We could sit here and argue about 121 vs. NJA all night long but there's no need to because the answer is very easy. It's all about the individual and there life. I have been with two 121 Airlines and two corporate jobs. As much as Rocker hates life at NJA, I love it even more. Any major could call me tomorrow for a job and I would say No Thank you. For me and my family the joy of not having to jumpseat and get into an old airport car to go to a crash pad on my day off is worth it all by itself. Now again, I don't want to get into the argument about who is better because life is different for all.
Unlike Rocker, I will tell you about NJA honestly without slamming them.
oh yeah, one more thing. I have sat on many beaches and at home while getting paid Rocker. I could give you a list of many great overnights that have lasted more than two days

 

[Lrjet55]

Sup fellas, heres my .02 worth...

At a commuter or airline you will work 14 to 18 days a month.

At NJA you will work 14 to 17 days a month.

Lets forget about the money for a sec because it will change. How much is still to be determined. Probably not 30 year United pay but most certainly a million times better than a commuter.

The NJA schedule affords you more time at home but also more time at work at a clip. An airline will give you less time at home and less time at work at a clip. It depends on what you like. Some 7/7 guys swear by it because every other 7 days its like a mini vacation. I personally hate it but thats where I am so I deal.

As for the schedule while you are working, hopefully that will change as well. You do have to be flexible though. JLB, I luv ya 'n all, it wasnt for you.(I was you intrerview sim partner by the way) I was sad to see ya go but hopefully you are doing better.

If you are a flexible person then you will be fine here. We are certainly a young company, respectively. Things are changing.
Keep one thing in mind though, our company is changing for the better. If what we do is a bad set up for you then rest assured it is going to get better. If you like what we do then rest assured it is going to get even better.


Me personally, I could not imagine spending a career at a commuter. I'm in it for the flying and the money and that aspect of it gives you neither.(IMHO) career wise NJA was a calculated risk for my future that I was willing to take.

NJA pays SH!T right now but it is still more than a commuter you still work less than one as well, correct me if I am wrong(I might be)

 

[JBL]

LRjet55,

You cracked the code!! You figured out who I am!! Wasn't hard, huh??

Glad to hear you're doing well and are diggin the NJ way of life. Good post.

Gang, here's the bottom line. The grass is always greener... well you get the idea. I did 5+ years at the regionals and I had major airline on the brain. Once I got there, I didn't care what time scheduling called me or what trip they put me on. I was where I wanted to be. NJ was a job, plain and simple. A job when I had no job. (Those are the best kind to have, you know.) Anything less than that major airline job was just that... a "less than". I've often told friends that my major airline job was the best AND worst thing that ever happened to me. It set the bar to a point that no future employer short of a major could reach. I know a ton of guys who feel the way I do...and many of them are flying at NJ right now. As things pick back up this WILL change and, in time, NJ will be fully staffed with pilots who truly want to be there.

Most of the pilots at NJ have never flown for a major and don't know just how good life can be. Sure, there are a few who have "been there, done that" and like NJ just fine. Good for them. I couldn't hang, so I left. This is not meant to take anything away from the NJ group. A talented and dedicated bunch to say the least. Hopefully the much discussed new contract will bring them closer to what I'm talking about.

The days of the major airline Captain glory gig are coming to a close. Soon, it will be a simple choice of which type of flying do you prefer...scheduled airline or on demand fractional. You young guys just getting into the game will have to choose. If you're anything like the rest of us, you'll flood the market with resumes and jump at the first company that will hire you. Then you'll put your time in, upgrade, and start to bitch about how it "should be done", get furloughed and recalled, and have a totally different outlook on things. Ahh, the circle of life...

B.

 

[Lrjet55]

I still wish you hadent left. I guy like you can help make alot of difference. Either way I hope the family is healthy and doing well. You made the choice that was right for you and that will always be the best choice no matter what anyone, anytime says.

 

[skydriver]

Take all the posts so far, put them in a jar, shake it up and pour it out on the tabel and you still only have everyone's individual opinion - so here is mine. For the first time in my life I was in the right place at the right time gettig a job at NJA. Is it the perfect company ? No. Are there things I would like to see changed ? Sure - but it meets the three criteria I was looking for in a flying job. Financially stabile (Buffett never sells anything in less than ten years) - positive growth (we are in a temporary lull) - and good equipment. (noone can argue with that and

 

[skydriver]

Take all the posts so far, put them in a jar, shake it up and pour it out on the tabel and you still only have everyone's individual opinion - so here is mine. For the first time in my life I was in the right place at the right time getting a job at NJA. Is it the perfect company ? No. Are there things I would like to see changed ? Sure - but it meets the three criteria I was looking for in a flying job. Financially stable (Buffett never sells anything in less than ten years) - positive growth (we are in a temporary lull) - and good equipment. (noone can argue with that and THEY FIX IT). Is it for everyone ? Absolutely not. I have seen more than one airline pilot come here, could fly the airplane, but could not keep up. Personally I am mechanically oriented - I like pulling my own pins, putting on engine covers, and checking equipment bays. I like the challenges of always going to different places, but then I also know people who are terrified of a circling approach. (It is legalized buzzing for me.) In closing, in the four years I have been here NJ has done exactly what they promised and things have gotten better for me - and I expect that to continue. And as to job security - just go through a security check point or ride middle seat on Delta 757 cattle car - or a folding chair on an RJ. We are here to stay and we will always be flying the latest and best corporate aircraft. Just how I feel and means no more - no less.

 

[skydriver]

Sorry for the double post, but as my NJ buddies know, I am a road kill on the info super highway.

 

[ductleak]

GREAT POSTS! - and NOV!

Guys:

again, thanks for the awesome posts! I appreciate it! It sounds like November will be the start up to the interviewing again! I just got a message from a source inside the company! I am excited!

Take care!

 

[.92wshn1.92]

I suppose I rank with all the never-was's. My experience pre-EJA topped out at the regionals, but I have to say EJ can grow on you and it's not about the X, that is so lame, sure it's faster than anything else you can be paid to fly as a civilian, but it's not the space shuttle.

For me, I first came to Netjets for the schedule and that was it, ie. 13 or 14 days off a month that I could count on and not commute for beat the 11 to 13 days off a month I had and had to commute for, of course now I want more, days off that is. I don't know what will lure me away. Better pay - possibly (this contract is gonna affect A LOT of peoples thinking - believe it!), more time off - always a plus.

There's a lot of soul searching ahead for me, cuz I don't really want to leave, I love the variety. I hate repetition, doing the same routes over and over was a slow torturous death. It was always the same thing, upgrade in seat or to a new AC, great for a month then mind numbing monotony from then on.

I do miss passes & and knowing that at least once during my work week I had more than 18 or more hours on the ground to jell, have a few beers or go on a walkabout.