** Fractional, could just happen **

[NJA Capt]

JBL and Rocker,
Sorry to hear you didn't/don't like it here. I agree with Heavy set in that perhaps you guys did not investigate the fractional lifestyle before applying. Both of you guys mentioned not getting enough time to "sightsee" or whatever on layovers. Well......you are kindof at work. Sightseeing is for days off and for the people in the back. Personally, I have had quite a few memorable RONs, and I am NOWHERE near the A team.

I don't fault either of you for your QOL issues. You have to do what is right for yourself. Some guys like hard and fast duty and time of day regularity, others don't care. As for myself I like the diversity. I got pretty tired flying to the same 3 cities a couple of times per day. To each his own I guess. Guys with these opinions who are now "stuck here" if you will, are tying up seniority numbers of those who really want to be here.

Heavyset,
The X is a blast to fly and the speed is intoxicating. Although, when you're up there alone (no traffic) speed is just another number on the tape (dial for you steam lovers ). Except for changing the center freqs ever :30 seconds.

 

[JBL]

"Both of you guys mentioned not getting enough time to "sightsee" or whatever on layovers. Well......you are kindof at work. Sightseeing is for days off and for the people in the back."

NJA Capt,

Good points in your post. However, the only thing I mentioned not getting enough time for was a decent night's sleep. Put me on mornings or afternoons, but don't change me back and forth over and over again for God's sake. Ask anyone who flew with me at NJ...I busted my ass and couldn't have cared less about sightseeing.

You're right about there being a bunch of pilots who are not happy at NJ. I'm contacted regularly by pilots who have had enough of NJ's crap. The list is growing, and as things slowly pick back up industry wide, you'll start to see the defections increase. This is good news for you diehard NJ guys and gals.

I'm glad you like your job. Many NJ pilots do. Different strokes I guess. You dig it and I think it was the worst flying job I've ever had. Agree to disagree. Stay safe.

B.

 

[FracPilot]

I don't work for NJA, but I have been with a fractional for well over 4 years. This type of flying certainly is not for everyone. There are some that can't handle the constant state of change. It doesn't bother me. Some can't handle flying to small, unfamiliar airports quite often. I actually enjoy it. Some just can't stand the fact that they don't get to swagger through the terminal with an airline uniform on. I couldn't care less.

Would I go to a major given the opportunity? If I felt it was stable, you bet! The chance to make much better money alone would make the decision for me. I wouldn't like flying to the same handfull of airports time and time again, but I could deal with it for the cash. As long as I am flying - something, somewhere - I will be relatively happy with the job. I don't care much what type of airplane I fly - I don't understand the guys that get hung up on flying the Citation X because it's the fastest bizjet, or the Whale because it's the biggest. I'm happy if I'm flying and making good money. If I didn't enjoy the flying, I would be making much more money than I am now working in another field I am very experienced in.

I can understand why some guys are very disillusioned with the fractional industry - especially NJA. They are the largest of the fractional providers, yet their pay level is criminal. Those guys have been working for years at substandard pay. That's a great reason to be PO'd. Some guys are working for the frax when they don't want to be because they needed a job and it was offered. As long as they do their job correctly and don't let their unhappiness show to the owners, who cares? Let them move on when their chance comes - and somebody else take their position that really wants it.

 

[Semore Butts]

I guess time will tell

Hopefully the economy will give us all a chance to "light" in whatever part of the industry we want to be in.

It sounds like the companies are getting ready to "rev up" again soon.

I think I'll stay with the Fractional business, but my buddies at SWA insist I re-apply. It would be great to have to choose. I hope you all get that choice to make.

H#ll I don't know, I'm kinda getting sick of going to work altogether.

I do like watching the "chicks" at the airport, but other then that airlining to work sucks.

I like all the "deadhead legs" at the fractionals with the stereo jammin ZZ Top in the back.

Changing from AM's to PM's on a trip sucks as much as the pay.

Baby sitting a broke airplane for a few days can go either way depending on your location, never happen at an airline though.

Having one of the hottest woman on the planet leaning between the seats asking you questions, OOOOOHHHHH MMMAAAANNNNN!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever decision you make is best for you. Good luck!

 

[BigFlyr]

But one thing is for sure, at Netjets, you will be abused, have a crappy quality of work life, and be flying little jets to little airports the rest of your career.

Thanks for the post! Maybe it will improve someone else's chances of getting a job there! Someone who doesn't mind working for a living in exchange for flying brand new jets.

 

[trainerjet]

Thanks for the post! Maybe it will improve someone's chances of getting a job there! Someone who doesn't mind working for a living in exchange for flying brand new jets.

That's the same logic that people b!tch about constantly on here as to why regional pilot pay is $19/hr.

"But hey, I get to fly a brand new jet!"

Maybe some people have more self-respect that to be sh!t on constantly just to "fly a brand new jet". I guess at NetJets, the $19/hr is replaced by $37k/yr. Same deal, though. WAY below what it should be. But hey. You get to fly a brand new jet.

 

[Live4flyng]

Trainerjet

Speaking of D--khed responses, what an arrogant ass you are!

Did you know that NJA is unionized and is getting close to a new contract? I'm sure the airline you work for never had to bargain for anything you have. You were more than likely offered $150k/year from day one with all the work rules and benefits in place.

Typical response from someone who already "Has Theirs"! When times get tough and your company threatens to furlough or liquidate assets, guys like you would be the first to sell out one of your brothers/sisters.

Save your B.S. for that newly hired MD-80 FO who is naive enough to listen to it.

 

[BigFlyr]

That's the same logic that people b!tch about constantly on here as to why regional pilot pay is $19/hr.

"But hey, I get to fly a brand new jet!"

You're absolutely right! I really didn't mean to compare pilot pay at a fractional vs a regional. I know the pay sucks at most regionals but for many young and single pilots out there it's their first jet experience and by all the stats, the majors still prefer to hire from the regionals vs any other pilot group, military not included. I myself have never worked for a typical regional because I could never afford it!

The point I was trying to make in my previous post was that for those who don't mind the extra work involved in fractional type of flying, cleaning the airplane, catering, putting it to bed, etc... It's not a bad gig, and pay is bound to improve as the industry grows.

 

[Dep676]

I suppose trainerjet you are the "Aviation God" because you fly the same routes every day or every month. That's real experience I suppose. You could probably brief the approach and the airport layout for every airport you frequent on all your trips without even looking at the chart. If that is what you call experience then I guess you are the king. I would call that complancent and boring. Money is everything if you aren't happy at what your doing then the money doesn't mean a thing. So just keep your qlorified "bus driver" job and be happy at flying the same routes and to the same airports the rest of your life. That is until the airline you are working at goes under or your get furloughed. Remember though don't apply to the fractional because you won't be able to handle change. You might actually have to brief an approach that you never ahd to shoot before. Or God forbid that your schedule gets changed in the middle of the night. By the way thanks for the compliment.

 

[furlough-boy]

I suppose trainerjet you are the "Aviation God" because you fly the same routes every day or every month. That's real experience I suppose. You could probably brief the approach and the airport layout for every airport you frequent on all your trips without even looking at the chart. If that is what you call experience then I guess you are the king. I would call that complancent and boring. Money is everything if you aren't happy at what your doing then the money doesn't mean a thing. So just keep your qlorified "bus driver" job and be happy at flying the same routes and to the same airports the rest of your life. That is until the airline you are working at goes under or your get furloughed. Remember though don't apply to the fractional because you won't be able to handle change. You might actually have to brief an approach that you never ahd to shoot before. Or God forbid that your schedule gets changed in the middle of the night. By the way thanks for the compliment.

Maybe you shouldn't comment on how much better fractional flying is until you've done both. Only two pilots have ever told me that they never had any interest in airline flying. They were both corporate guys that had never done it. I've done both and I have to agree with Rocker that if you want to work twice as hard for a fraction of the money than fractional is the way to go. Good luck

 

[Semore Butts]

Hold the phone

Here we go again.

I have done both, though briefly, I did get a taste of the 121 side, and I have worked at 2 fractionals.

The fractional busines has it's perks that the airlines don't as well as visa versa for sure.

As I said in a recent post, hopefully, we will all get to choose where we want to be in the future.

The fractional business is relatively new and is growing in popularity every day.

Even within the same company, attitudes can very depending on which fleet you are in. I like my fractional job, I liked my other fractional job, but I worked alot harder there. Guys I know in other fleets here work alot harder then I do.

That whole situation will help me to move up the seniority list and be allowed to bid different aircraft in the future. Many pilots senior to me have not been to the airlines, and the lure of the "big money" will send them on their way. Whether they will have made the right decision for them, well, time will tell ( I always seem to find myself saying that).

The fractional flying is alot more fun I think, except for the part about "poking" and "partying" with the flight attendants. (then again, I'm married so that's not really a big factor, and I'm not saying that every airline pilot is out there cheating on their spouses)

To you "furlough boy", your name says alot, sorry.

The fractional industry seems to be coming into it's own on what the pilots do and the pay they deserve, on the other hand the airlines seem to be cramming as many people on the Regional jets that they can in order to haul more people and pay the pilot about the same or less then a fractional pilots. (In most fractional cases, it's less)

I see all these orders for RJ's, which tells me that this practice is gonna continue.

I will say this, as a passenger going to work, riding on a "Jungle jet" for 2 and 1/2 hours reeks havoc on the ass for sure! Hopefully the traveling publics' opinion will change this more towards they way "it used to be".

 

[AppBrookie]

I spent 10 years at the airlines(7yrs at a decent regional and just over 3 at a major), currently at a "major" Fractional on a very high performance a/c. Words cannot describe how thankful I am to have this job in today's environment and I bust my butt workin to hang on to it. However, I will not make a lifelong career out of this: #1 reason is rest: It's not unusual to work till 2-3 am and then rest to be put on a totally opposite side of the clock schedule, it's much worse than doing stand-ups(continuous duty overnights) or red-eyes at the airlines. #2 Pay:
the utilization that they get out of us is unbelievable, we should be making at least 2-3 times what we are making for the amount of work we do, the limo drivers that drop our people off planeside make more than a majority of our captains. #3 Seniority: there's nothing to look forward to as you become more senior, except for a few more peanuts, no better schedule except the 7/7(which if you have a family is little too long in the tooth), as said before seniority means nothing on the road.
I have yet to meet anyone at a fractional with a background at a part 121, especially a major that would not jump at the chance at returning and not just for the obvious financial reasons.
On the plus side, we do stay in some very,very nice hotels, but just give me a decent, clean room and half of the cash from the savings.
We all know that the grass is greener, but if you are at a decent regional flying good equipment, give it some deep thought before making the jump.
Just speaking the truth, to each his own.

 

[MotoX]

You must be in either the Ten or Ultra!

 

[JetPilot500]

After reading this entire thread, all I can says is that it is very sad to see how UN-happy so many people are with their career.

If you are working the EJA 7/7 schedule, that means you are unhappy about 50% of your life! That cannot be healthy!

In all seriousness, maybe some of these people need to consider a Happier/Heathly Career.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500


P.S. Try Reading: "Who Moved My Cheese?"

 

[hawkercpt]

Kenn?

Is that you?