Forward Slips Part Two

[tothelineplz]

(-23) AT APPROX. 1400 HOURS LOCAL TIME, THE PILOT WAS ACTING AS PIC OF A/C N330JE DURING A TRAINING FLIGHT AT SUNDANCE AIRPORT. THE PILOT WAS DEMONSTRATING A FORWARD SLIP TO LAND ON RUNWAY 17, WHEN ON SHORT FINAL THE SINK RATE SUDDENLY INCREASED RESULTING IN A TAIL LOW HARD LANDING. THE PILOT ADDED POWER BECOMING AIRBORNE AND CHOSE TO RETURN TO WILL ROGERS WORLD AIRPORT. EXAMINATION OF THE A/C REVEALED THAT THE BOTTOM TAIL SKIN AND TAIL TIE DOWN SKID WAS DAMAGED. THE VERTICAL STABILIZER AND RUDDER HAD WRINKLED SKIN AT THE UPPER AND LOWER HINGE POINTS. THE HORIZONTAL STABILIZER LOWER SKINS WERE OIL CANNED.

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Detail

Primary Flight Type: INSTRUCTION
Secondary Flight Type: TRAINING
Type of Operation: GENERAL OPERATING RULES
Registration Nbr: 330JE
Total Aboard: 3
Fatalities:
Injuries:
Landing Gear: NONRETRACT TRICYCLE
Aircraft Weight Class: UNDER 12501 LBS
Engine Make:
Engine Model:
Engine Group:
Number of Engines: 1
Engine Type:


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Environmental/Operations Info

Primary Flight Conditions: VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
Secondary Flight Conditions:
Wind Direction(deg):
Wind Speed(mph):
Visibility(mi.):
Visibility Restrictions:
Light Condition: DAY
Flight Plan Filed: UNKNOWN
Approach Type:


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Pilot In Command

Pilot Certificates: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Pilot Rating: AIRPLANE SINGLE, MULTI-ENGINE LAND
Pilot Qualification:
Flight Time Total Hours: 14000
Total in Make/Model: 600
Total in Last 90 days: 120
Total in last 90 days Make/Model:


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END REPORT

 

[tothelineplz]

"Unconscious Gear Retraction"? Come on!

NASDAC BRIEF REPORT

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GENERAL INFORMATION

Data Source: ACCIDENT AND INCIDENT DATABASE
Report Number: 20010314005239G
Local Date: 14-MAR-01
Local Time:
City: RICHMOND
State: IN
Airport Name: RICHMOND MUNI
Event Type: INCIDENT - GENERAL AVIATION
Mid Air Collision: NOT A MIDAIR


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AIRCRAFT INFORMATION

Aircraft Damage: MINOR
Aircraft Make: CESSNA
Aircraft Model: CE-182
Aircraft Series: CE-182-R182
Airframe Hrs: 5633
Operator:

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NARRATIVE

(-23) PILOT STATED THAT HE AND A PRIVATE PILOT DEPARTED DAYTON ENROUTE TO RICHMOND TO PRACTICE TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS. THEY HAD DECIDED TO LEAVE THE LANDING GEAR DOWN WHILE IN THE PATTERN. ^PRIVACY DAT^ A CFII STATED HE HAD UNCONSCIOUSLY RETRACTED THE GEAR AFTER DEPARTURE. ON FINAL APPROACH HE WAS PREDISPOSED TO THINK THE GEAR WAS IN FACT DOWN AS IT DID NOT REGISTER THAT THE GEAR LIGHTS WERE NOT ON. HE HAD A LITTLE EXTRA POWER ON BECAUSE OF THE FORWARD SLIP HE WAS DEMONSTRATING SO THE GEAR HORN NEVER SOUNDED.

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Detail

Primary Flight Type: INSTRUCTION
Secondary Flight Type: TRAINING
Type of Operation: GENERAL OPERATING RULES
Registration Nbr: 757YG
Total Aboard: 2
Fatalities:
Injuries:
Landing Gear: RETRACT TRICYCLE
Aircraft Weight Class: UNDER 12501 LBS
Engine Make:
Engine Model:
Engine Group:
Number of Engines: 1
Engine Type:


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Environmental/Operations Info

Primary Flight Conditions: VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
Secondary Flight Conditions: WEATHER NOT A FACTOR
Wind Direction(deg):
Wind Speed(mph):
Visibility(mi.):
Visibility Restrictions:
Light Condition: DAY
Flight Plan Filed: UNKNOWN
Approach Type:


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Pilot In Command

Pilot Certificates: COMMERCIAL PILOT FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Pilot Rating: AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
Pilot Qualification: QUALIFIED
Flight Time Total Hours: 700
Total in Make/Model: 300
Total in Last 90 days: 23
Total in last 90 days Make/Model:


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END REPORT

 

[tothelineplz]

(-5) AIRMAN WAS UNDERGOING A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATION CHECK RIDE GIVEN BY A DESIGNATED PILOT EXAMINER AND DEMONSTRATING A FORWARD SLIP TO LANDING. DURING THE LANDING FLARE A SCRAPING SOUND WAS HEARD AND BOTH THE AIRMAN AND EXAMINER REALIZED THE LANDING GEAR HAD NOT BEEN LOWERED

Huh? A forward slip with a huge drag device in the well? Now that's airmanship!

 

[tothelineplz]

STUDENT OVERSHOT FINAL AND MADE FORWARD SLIP TO LOSE ALTITUDE. HARD LANDING AND VEERED OFF RUNWAY.


What the heck is a student pilot performing this maneuver for at 26 hours TT? This is an advanced maneuver which requires a thorough understanding prior to perfoming.

 

[tothelineplz]

FAILED A TIMELY RECOVERY FROM A FORWARD SLIP ON SHORT FINAL. RIGHT WING TIP TANK STRUCK THE GROUND

Flight Time Total Hours: 2600
Total in Make/Model: 1500
Total in Last 90 days: 42
Total in last 90 days Make/Model: 42

What is a recovery from a forward slip? In case your last resort didn't work or what?

 

[tothelineplz]

RECOVERED TOO LATE FROM A FORWARD SLIP AND STRUCK SURFACE. DAMAGED LANDING GEAR AND PROPELLER


Pilot Qualification: NO BIENNIAL FLIGHT REVIEW
Flight Time Total Hours: 370
Total in Make/Model: 250


Huh? What was this pilot recovering from? Lack of refresher training on go arounds or slips or...

 

[tothelineplz]

That is all...

 

[ShawnC]

There are going to accidents as with all forms of flights, I am sure if I looked hard enough I can find accident reports where the pilots overshot the runway on engine out because they weren't profienct on using the forward slip to lose alititude.

And what is a 26hr pilot doing Forward slip? Well on my second training flight, in the L-23 Blanik had to use a forward slip. Heck I don't even know how I did it since it was my first ever, but my instructor swears to this day that all he did was pull the nose up since I let it drop.

 

[ShawnC]

STUDENT OVERSHOT FINAL AND MADE FORWARD SLIP TO LOSE ALTITUDE. HARD LANDING AND VEERED OFF RUNWAY.


What the heck is a student pilot performing this maneuver for at 26 hours TT? This is an advanced maneuver which requires a thorough understanding prior to perfoming.

FAR 61.87 Solo Requiriments:

Blah-blah

(14) Slips to landing

Well it's required knowledge to solo.

 

[tothelineplz]

A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:


That is the requirement. It is my expert opinion that the forward slip should not be practiced by solo students in pursuit of a private pilot certificate.

Putting this maneuver in the tool bag of pre-solo students is ill-advised from my perspective because it de-emphasizes proper planning and airmanship. It is imperative our CFI's out there properly "supervise" their students during solo activity and this includes placing limitations on maneuvers which "student" pilots are to perform on assigned training flights. The forward slip is an inappropriate maneuver for a pre-solo student to practice while engaged in solo flight.

Unless, of course, one is flying something without flaps.

That is all...

 

[Bluestreak]

"pre-solo student to practice while engaged in solo flight." Huh ? Some of y'all need to read Barry Schiff's "The Proficient Pilot", Vol. 1,"Slip Tips".

 

[rfeathe1]

Slips

I don't understand all the controversy about teaching slips to low time student pilots--when I was instructing I always taught slips to my students. Some of the aircraft I instructed in had flaps & some didn't. I was taught slips before solo in a J 3 cub. A few years back I slipped a passenger Convair 440--we were empty but the 2 flight attendants in back raised quite a ruckus & one of them even stormed into the cockpit & accused me of having a incestuous relationship with my mother!!

 

[gnx99]

Slips and the 172

On the 172 it says "Avoid slips with flaps extended" and I'm wondering if I should even teach students to do slips with the flaps extended.

I do it on my own often, but am wondering if an examiner would fail someone for doing a forward slip in a 172 with full flaps???

I guess, like many people i'm trying to differentiate between "avoid" and "prohibited"

 

[DJS]

Slips in a 172

The 172 POH says slips with full flaps are "not recommended". They are not prohibited, though. The reason they are not recommended is that with full flaps there can be some airflow distubance over the elevator, causing some buffeting. The buffeting, however, has no real affect on airplane control; it is just a little disconcerting if you've never experienced it (I have).

...Dave

 

[ShawnC]

Personally I in the Cessna series of aircraft I would rather use flaps 20 with a slight slip rather than flaps 30, because in a go around pulling the slip out you have no loss of altitude related to pulling out the flaps.