Forward Slips Part Two

[tothelineplz]

...and I maintain that it is important to be in coordinated flight when below 1000' AGL and most certainly below 500'...

Remember what you teach your students...keep the ball centered or "step on the ball".

Landing Flaps...Safety Check Please...


That is all...

 

[DJS]

Why are they bad?

I went back and read the original thread from this summer, and still haven't figured out why foreward slips are "bad". There are indeed a few "gotchas", and I don't think I'd want to be the passenger in a 767 when the captain decides he's too high and needs to slip.

The 172 (the plane I currently fly) has a recommendation against slips with full flaps, but that's related to a buffet that can be felt as the airflow over the elevator is slightly disrupted. It is disconcerting the first time this happens, but after a bunch of practice, you start to get a feel for it and, as far as I can tell from the POH and my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, it doesn't lead to any loss of control.

At this point, the slip is a nice tool in my bag given the airplane I currently fly. Yes, a good approach generally means I won't be too high (see my previous post about landing at my particular airport at night, where I intentionally come in a little high). But every now and then, a low hour pilot like me finds themselves a little high on final and 5 seconds of slipping gets me back down to where I want without adding much airspeed.

But if there are true safety issues, I'd certainly like to know about them.

...Dave

 

[carlos]

I was introduced to the forward slip in my flight lesson this morning. It's going to take me a while to get the hang of it (I practically stalled the airplane on one approach!). It's very effective, though, at losing altitude quickly and slowing the airplane up, more so than the flaps it seemed to me. I'm training in a 152. My CFI said that one instance where you might use this technique is if your flaps are inoperative due to an electrical problem (if you have electric flaps, of course), or to lose altitude if you're following someone in on a high final.

I see it as a useful technique to use in the right situation. Like any part of flying it takes some attention to keep it effective and safe. Do it incorrectly, and you could be in bad shape quick, especially on approach. Use it wisely and with care, and you'll be fine, again, like any part of flying. Just my thoughts...

 

[tothelineplz]

I've always taught that full rudder deflection and enough opposite aileron to maintain a ground track parallel to the extended runway centerline when within 500 feet of terra firma is ill-advised.

While performing this maneuver, three things should be considered which correlate with stall/spin awareness. All pilots should ideally understand (working knowlege at a minimum) the follwing prior to performing this maneuver.

1) Adverse Yaw
2) Airflow Dynamics (Stagnation Point/Initial Airflow Separation)
3) Rectangular Courses

There are very limited times this maneuver should be used in real world flying. One of them is powerplant failure when conservation of altitude and airspeed are primary and immediate considerations. More on that in another posting. Another would be to dissipate altitude when the pilot experiences an inflight fire and sees a neon "open" sign on the local tavern immediately below his grief stricken aircraft...but their may be others, can anyone out there think of any?

That is all...

 

[ShawnC]

Rough quotes from the article:

"If slips are so bad, then why does the FAA see fit to spend a considerable amount of the PTS on them. In one case it says that you must be able to land within 400 ft of a selected landing point."

"Yes a slip can depart into a spin if you stall the aircraft, just don't stall the aircraft."

Basiclly if you don't practice slips enough you will lose them as a valuable tool, as such a private pilot should practice it as much as they can, because they may fly monthly if that. Now for commerical pilots both ATP and CPL you should practice it, but never in a fare paying aircraft, but you still need to keep your proficency up.

 

[tothelineplz]

(-23) AT APPROX. 1400 HOURS LOCAL TIME, THE PILOT WAS ACTING AS PIC OF A/C N330JE DURING A TRAINING FLIGHT AT SUNDANCE AIRPORT. THE PILOT WAS DEMONSTRATING A FORWARD SLIP TO LAND ON RUNWAY 17, WHEN ON SHORT FINAL THE SINK RATE SUDDENLY INCREASED RESULTING IN A TAIL LOW HARD LANDING. THE PILOT ADDED POWER BECOMING AIRBORNE AND CHOSE TO RETURN TO WILL ROGERS WORLD AIRPORT. EXAMINATION OF THE A/C REVEALED THAT THE BOTTOM TAIL SKIN AND TAIL TIE DOWN SKID WAS DAMAGED. THE VERTICAL STABILIZER AND RUDDER HAD WRINKLED SKIN AT THE UPPER AND LOWER HINGE POINTS. THE HORIZONTAL STABILIZER LOWER SKINS WERE OIL CANNED.

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Detail

Primary Flight Type: INSTRUCTION
Secondary Flight Type: TRAINING
Type of Operation: GENERAL OPERATING RULES
Registration Nbr: 330JE
Total Aboard: 3
Fatalities:
Injuries:
Landing Gear: NONRETRACT TRICYCLE
Aircraft Weight Class: UNDER 12501 LBS
Engine Make:
Engine Model:
Engine Group:
Number of Engines: 1
Engine Type:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmental/Operations Info

Primary Flight Conditions: VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
Secondary Flight Conditions:
Wind Direction(deg):
Wind Speed(mph):
Visibility(mi.):
Visibility Restrictions:
Light Condition: DAY
Flight Plan Filed: UNKNOWN
Approach Type:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot In Command

Pilot Certificates: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Pilot Rating: AIRPLANE SINGLE, MULTI-ENGINE LAND
Pilot Qualification:
Flight Time Total Hours: 14000
Total in Make/Model: 600
Total in Last 90 days: 120
Total in last 90 days Make/Model:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END REPORT

 

[tothelineplz]

"Unconscious Gear Retraction"? Come on!

NASDAC BRIEF REPORT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL INFORMATION

Data Source: ACCIDENT AND INCIDENT DATABASE
Report Number: 20010314005239G
Local Date: 14-MAR-01
Local Time:
City: RICHMOND
State: IN
Airport Name: RICHMOND MUNI
Event Type: INCIDENT - GENERAL AVIATION
Mid Air Collision: NOT A MIDAIR


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIRCRAFT INFORMATION

Aircraft Damage: MINOR
Aircraft Make: CESSNA
Aircraft Model: CE-182
Aircraft Series: CE-182-R182
Airframe Hrs: 5633
Operator:

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NARRATIVE

(-23) PILOT STATED THAT HE AND A PRIVATE PILOT DEPARTED DAYTON ENROUTE TO RICHMOND TO PRACTICE TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS. THEY HAD DECIDED TO LEAVE THE LANDING GEAR DOWN WHILE IN THE PATTERN. ^PRIVACY DAT^ A CFII STATED HE HAD UNCONSCIOUSLY RETRACTED THE GEAR AFTER DEPARTURE. ON FINAL APPROACH HE WAS PREDISPOSED TO THINK THE GEAR WAS IN FACT DOWN AS IT DID NOT REGISTER THAT THE GEAR LIGHTS WERE NOT ON. HE HAD A LITTLE EXTRA POWER ON BECAUSE OF THE FORWARD SLIP HE WAS DEMONSTRATING SO THE GEAR HORN NEVER SOUNDED.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detail

Primary Flight Type: INSTRUCTION
Secondary Flight Type: TRAINING
Type of Operation: GENERAL OPERATING RULES
Registration Nbr: 757YG
Total Aboard: 2
Fatalities:
Injuries:
Landing Gear: RETRACT TRICYCLE
Aircraft Weight Class: UNDER 12501 LBS
Engine Make:
Engine Model:
Engine Group:
Number of Engines: 1
Engine Type:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmental/Operations Info

Primary Flight Conditions: VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
Secondary Flight Conditions: WEATHER NOT A FACTOR
Wind Direction(deg):
Wind Speed(mph):
Visibility(mi.):
Visibility Restrictions:
Light Condition: DAY
Flight Plan Filed: UNKNOWN
Approach Type:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot In Command

Pilot Certificates: COMMERCIAL PILOT FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Pilot Rating: AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
Pilot Qualification: QUALIFIED
Flight Time Total Hours: 700
Total in Make/Model: 300
Total in Last 90 days: 23
Total in last 90 days Make/Model:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END REPORT

 

[tothelineplz]

(-5) AIRMAN WAS UNDERGOING A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATION CHECK RIDE GIVEN BY A DESIGNATED PILOT EXAMINER AND DEMONSTRATING A FORWARD SLIP TO LANDING. DURING THE LANDING FLARE A SCRAPING SOUND WAS HEARD AND BOTH THE AIRMAN AND EXAMINER REALIZED THE LANDING GEAR HAD NOT BEEN LOWERED

Huh? A forward slip with a huge drag device in the well? Now that's airmanship!

 

[tothelineplz]

STUDENT OVERSHOT FINAL AND MADE FORWARD SLIP TO LOSE ALTITUDE. HARD LANDING AND VEERED OFF RUNWAY.


What the heck is a student pilot performing this maneuver for at 26 hours TT? This is an advanced maneuver which requires a thorough understanding prior to perfoming.

 

[tothelineplz]

FAILED A TIMELY RECOVERY FROM A FORWARD SLIP ON SHORT FINAL. RIGHT WING TIP TANK STRUCK THE GROUND

Flight Time Total Hours: 2600
Total in Make/Model: 1500
Total in Last 90 days: 42
Total in last 90 days Make/Model: 42

What is a recovery from a forward slip? In case your last resort didn't work or what?