Former AWA Pilot writes the truth

[charlie2]

Interesting. You're arguing the fairness of the Nic and I'm arguing the integrity of living up to your obligations. I don't care if you think the nic is fair. Both sides entered arbitration expecting the other to abide by it. Grow up.

I never would have agreed to binding arbitration (and I didn't agree to it) because the arbitrator can do whatever they want and ignore a national unions instructions and give an obvious windfall to one side. I know on this anonymous board you can say anything but I doubt you could look at a loved one and tell them that it is fair that a guy with 2 months of service should be the captain of a 16+ year guy and tell that that is not a windfallfall for Dave. You will say because I was furloughed I "brought nothing to the table". It is backwards. When my wealthy management decided to sacrifice my family so they can make the company look better for a merger than I brought everything to the table...everything...I helped make your purchase of the great US Airways possible (very sarcastic if you couldn't tell). When you stand there and try to pull it off as you guys were geniouses because "you bought USAirways" that you should have everything here I can only say you will get it all. In about 10 to 12 years. You win either way it turns out Captain.

 

[TWA Dude]

Are you still trying to argue the fairness of the Nic? That's so 2007. Welcome to 2011.

Earlier you at least tried to justify what you're trying to do to the West. Now it's back to "It's not fair and everybody owes us".

Since you're not getting it I'll repeat yet again: it's irrelevant if you think the Nic list isn't fair or didn't follow ALPA policy. He's an arbitrator and he makes those determinations, not you or I. Both sides willingly entered into binding arbitration. Deal with it and live with it. See you in Judge Silver's court.

 

[Metrojet]

Are you still trying to argue the fairness of the Nic? That's so 2007. Welcome to 2011.

Earlier you at least tried to justify what you're trying to do to the West. Now it's back to "It's not fair and everybody owes us".

Since you're not getting it I'll repeat yet again: it's irrelevant if you think the Nic list isn't fair or didn't follow ALPA policy. He's an arbitrator and he makes those determinations, not you or I. Both sides willingly entered into binding arbitration. Deal with it and live with it. See you in Judge Silver's court.

C'mon TWA Dude - your questioning why someone is "still trying to argue the fairness of Nic from 2007 - to 2011?" That's exactly what you've been doing in hundreds of threads and pretty brochure mailings from AOL!

I will disagree with you though on the DJ that the company has filed - it is just a delaying tactic for some long term strategic goal that they have - it has nothing to do with accepting a different list and a DFR II. If they wanted a new contract with certain conditions and restrictions that they felt would be voted in with a majority - it would have happened awhile ago - if a majority passes it especially in the PHX base - how could that be a DFR litigation II?

Metrojet

 

[charlie2]

Are you still trying to argue the fairness of the Nic? That's so 2007. Welcome to 2011.

Earlier you at least tried to justify what you're trying to do to the West. Now it's back to "It's not fair and everybody owes us".

Since you're not getting it I'll repeat yet again: it's irrelevant if you think the Nic list isn't fair or didn't follow ALPA policy. He's an arbitrator and he makes those determinations, not you or I. Both sides willingly entered into binding arbitration. Deal with it and live with it. See you in Judge Silver's court.

Just trying to convey to you some of the reasons for our determination and perserverance. I think you guys need to be reminded of the absurdity of your binding arbitration...it is keeping you from a decent contract. When will you see me in her court in 2012, 13? If we lose we appeal in 2014...15? In 2015 will we get to vote down (for many years) a contract containg the nic or will you guys some how get a jdge to change the RLA and have him force a contract down our throats?

 

[TWA Dude]

C'mon TWA Dude - your questioning why someone is "still trying to argue the fairness of Nic from 2007 - to 2011?" That's exactly what you've been doing in hundreds of threads and pretty brochure mailings from AOL!

I guess I'm guilty as charged, however, I hasten to add that my arguments are purely in response to Easties. I must be a closet optimist in that I think presenting reasonable discussion points with reasonable people can actually resolve anything. You and your colleagues keep proving me wrong on that.

I will disagree with you though on the DJ that the company has filed - it is just a delaying tactic for some long term strategic goal that they have - it has nothing to do with accepting a different list and a DFR II.

I think it's both but in any case they're just following USAPA's lead. Don't forget we were close to getting a joint CBA in 2007 when the company was profitable. Nobody to blame but the East for pulling out of negotiations in a snit. If USAPA decides to accept the arbitrated list we could actually get some leverage as a unified pilot group. It's up to you.

If they wanted a new contract with certain conditions and restrictions that they felt would be voted in with a majority - it would have happened awhile ago -

I know you really, really, really want to believe what $eham and Ghengis Cleary have told you but just because the Addington verdict was overturned on ripeness doesn't mean it's like it never happened. A jury of twelve unanimously found USAPA violated its DFR and the company lawyers figure that means it would likely happen again.

...if a majority passes it especially in the PHX base - how could that be a DFR litigation II?

You're right. I challenge USAPA to present a TA that the majority of PHX pilots could vote for. I'll look forward to it.

 

[TWA Dude]

Just trying to convey to you some of the reasons for our determination and perserverance.

If $eham hadn't told Cleary changing unions was a legal way to get around an arbitration the USAPA debacle would've never come to pass. As I said before, you're doing this because you think there's a chance you'll get away with it. The second you realize you can't the dispute will end.

I think you guys need to be reminded of the absurdity of your binding arbitration...it is keeping you from a decent contract.

You're too generous. It was OUR binding arbitration. You know, the one both sides spend months and millions of dollars on. Absurd or not, binding means, oh what's the word I'm looking for, oh yeah, BINDING. Oh, and our contract is more decent than yours and so far a lot of what your so-called NAC has come up with is concessionary. (Plus, we'll lose use of the cabin jumpseat.) As Nicolau stated, the East has a lot more to gain than the West. Enjoy LOA 93 as long as wish.

When will you see me in her court in 2012, 13? If we lose we appeal in 2014...15?

We all know the East's strategy from day one has been to delay the implementation of the Nic list. In that you've succeeded. If there's justice there'll be high price to pay for your treachery.

In 2015 will we get to vote down (for many years) a contract containg the nic or will you guys some how get a jdge to change the RLA and have him force a contract down our throats?

A judge won't force any contract on anybody but s/he can negate any part that's illegal. That's all that required in this case.

 

[charlie2]

A judge won't force any contract on anybody but s/he can negate any part that's illegal. That's all that required in this case.

I meant when we finally (in three or four years) are forced to negotiate a contract using the nic, will I get to vote no on it? Because I will.

 

[charlie2]

Oh, and our contract is more decent than yours and so far a lot of what your so-called NAC has come up with is concessionary. (Plus, we'll lose use of the cabin jumpseat.) As Nicolau stated, the East has a lot more to gain than the West. Enjoy LOA 93 as long as wish.

I just finished SAP'ing my Aug schedule hoping to go from 16 days off to 18. How's Aug looking for you right now? I like our contract.

 

[becket]

I meant when we finally (in three or four years) are forced to negotiate a contract using the nic, will I get to vote no on it? Because I will.

Go Ahead! Who cares? You can cut off your to spite your face until the end of time. Won't change a thing.

 

[TWA Dude]

I just finished SAP'ing my Aug schedule hoping to go from 16 days off to 18. How's Aug looking for you right now? I like our contract.

Seriously, you really want to play a game of "our contract is better than yours"? You really think you have something to brag about? Enjoy your SAPing, whatever that means.