Ford & GM Leaders: Left-wing Liberals?

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The major 2 problems on my mind lately are the shrinking of oil supplies, and our screwed up health care system.


Bill Ford, Jr., the CEO of Ford Motor Co., had 2 press releases that address both of these items.


Oil Withdrawal:

In the past, Kerry expressed verbal support for a $.50/gallon additional tax on gasoline (note: he did not vote for this tax).

Bill Ford Jr., said he supports a $.50/gallon additional tax on gasoline (& Vice Chairman Bob Lutz also supports a higher tax on gasoline) in this article:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040407/autos_ford_gasoline_1.html?

Why? Because our dependence on oil will end, either in a controlled, economically reasonable switch away from oil, or in an Dark Ages type scenario where we economically run out of oil, with no alternative available, and are plunged into chaos, anarchy and death for millions.

Currently, gasoline costs between $5 and $15/gallon, depending on the type of accounting methods we use. We (US taxpayers like me) pay for gasoline through the general income tax, as well as other taxes, and by pushing costs of gasoline into the deficit.

The price we pay at the pump only covers a fraction of the actual cost of gasoline. What's worse, our tax dollars are subsidizing the price of gas for other country's consumers. I read a British political leader's writing stating that my tax money reduces the cost of gasoline to the British consumer to the tune of $1/gallon. He said that $.70 of this $1 is our tax money going to pay for the military defense of the oil supply.

US Health Care System Disaster:

Bill Ford Jr. also speaks to this issue in this article:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040407/autos_ford_healthcare_2.html

He says that our health care system is broken and needs a national solution. I'm glad that our country's business leaders, as well as more and more common folk (like me) are realizing that something needs to be done.

Bill Ford, Jr. says that our health care system works great for the drug companies, and no one else.

Now, my question. I have read and heard that both of the above views are left-wing, radical, Liberal, etc. So, and these leaders of GM and Ford radical leftists?

Maybe they are just pragmatists, and they see real problems that need real solutions. I would like to see Bush and Kerry, along with other major political leaders come up with a plan to solve both of these problems.

What is your opinion? I would be very interested in understanding everyone's point of view, both "Left-wing" and "Right-wing", and everything in between.

Cliff
DTW

PS-I wish you and your family good health and happiness.

 

[Timebuilder]

Now, my question. I have read and heard that both of the above views are left-wing, radical, Liberal, etc. So, and these leaders of GM and Ford radical leftists?

Yes.

The real movers and shakers of the democrats are what are called limousine liberals. They see problems from the perspective of one who will never want for anything. No matter what, their diversified investments will always generate more moiney than they could ever need. Sens. John Corzine and Ted Kennedy fall into this category, and there are literally hundreds of others like them.

The interesting part is how they want to solve these problems. They want to use OUR money to do it, not theirs. They will never be personally affected by their tax and spend ways. Also, understand this, while folks like this complain about tax cuts, each and every one of them is benefitting from the cuts they publically decry, and none of them are sending their dividend payments to the homeless, or volunteering to pay for health insurance for the sick and poor.

In other words, it is all about power, influence, and using your money, not their own, to effect change. In this way, they remain unaffected.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

So, what's the problem with taxing all those wasteful, rich, fuks that drive H2s again?

 

[Timebuilder]

So, what's the problem with taxing all those wasteful, rich, fuks that drive H2s again?

You may not know it, but you asked a good question.

First how do we define the level of wealth where this increased tax burden would kick in? Would this be strictly an income tax, where the wealthy could shift money into holding companies for investment (like most already do now) and meter the actual amount of "income" they receive to match the level of deductible expense? Would it come as a tax on net worth?

Some folks define "rich" as making just $200k per year. One plan sees a rollback in the Bush tax cuts to the previously higher rates. Those tax cuts incidentally still leaves everyone making over $200k, right up through the super rich, paying a higher tax rate than anyone in the remaining lower income group. You see, this "tax cut for the weathiest Americans" you keep hearing about still leaves these people paying the VAST majority of taxes. The rates you and I pay are FAR lower, as is the percentage of our overall contribution to the treasury.

Unfortunately, rolling back the Bush tax cuts only raises 640 billion in additional income to the treasury, at least on paper. What would actually happen?

When you raise taxes, those taxes are paid from money that would otherwise be available for investment. The result? All of the economic stimulus that has benefitted our economy would stop. Because of the slowing economy, fewer taxes would be paid to the treasury, and that 640 billion now starts to shrink.

People would feel like we punished all of those "wasteful, rich, fuks that drive H2s", you know, the ones that actually own companies that provide jobs, and we would have even fewer jobs than we do right now.

Maybe the best way to keep Hillary out of the white house would be to elect John Kerry.

Hey. That's an idea.



Naw.

 

[ShawnC]

So, what's the problem with taxing all those wasteful, rich, fuks that drive H2s again?

Because they won't take the brunt of this tax increase. Businesses like UPS, FedEx, and truckers will. And so will the average users, I drive a compact car and a tax increase like this will raise my monthly gas bill by $30, and all I use it for is to drive around town.

Imagine the cost for commuters, and professional drivers?

 

[bart]

So, what's the problem with taxing all those wasteful, rich, fuks that drive H2s again?

Vlad, one day you will wake up and recognize that all of YOUR problems are exactly that.

Until then heap the blame on us that have chosen to make our own way in the world.

We are used to it...

 

[dmspilot00]

or in an Dark Ages type scenario where we economically run out of oil, with no alternative available, and are plunged into chaos, anarchy and death for millions

That's funny.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi DMSpilot00:

Actually, it's not funny. Our food production is extremely oil dependent, with the production of fertilizer being the major use of oil in our food production.

Cliff
DTW

 

[merikeyegro]

Get solar panels for your Florida or California residence, buy a hybrid car, and recycle your plastic bottles and this won't be as big of a deal. Also, taxing gas DOES make people think about car choices, so that would be a factor. For instance, the oil crunch in the 1970s caused all of those crappy Japanese cars to flood the market. They were crap, but they burned little gas.

That being said, most of this country does not have the infrastructure to deal with an immediate gas tax. We don't have nearly the public transportation for it right now. It would hurt the wrong people. If that were to change, maybe the tax would be OK. We're just better off conserving in other areas, like home and work, than in the cars. Tax credits should be given to encourage small-car buying.

Just because someone supports a tax increase does not make him liberal. Have YOUR taxes gone down? Mine haven't. I've been working here since the 2000 election and my tax take has been the same every 2 weeks - 9-11%. I make $26,000/year. Add in huge deficits and my increased health insurance premiums and I'd say I'm worse off now than I was in 2000.

Think about something other than what's reported in Fox News.

 

[ShawnC]

Just because someone supports a tax increase does not make him liberal. Have YOUR taxes gone down? Mine haven't. I've been working here since the 2000 election and my tax take has been the same every 2 weeks - 9-11%. I make $26,000/year. Add in huge deficits and my increased health insurance premiums and I'd say I'm worse off now than I was in 2000.

Think about something other than what's reported in Fox News.

Well at $26k you on the lower tax brackets, there is not much room to cut yours. I noticed the tax cut, it wasn't like OMG I am rich, but it was nice to have.

 

[sweptback]

Instead of taxing the crap out of gas, which doesn't hurt the people it should hurt (those who drive H2s for no reason but to look cool), why not do some sensible things?

Why not extend the gas guzzler tax to things like SUVs? If your business has a need for a SUV that's great, maybe there can be some sort of credit to make up for it, but think of how many soccer moms buy Explorers just so they can feel "safe" and then b!tch when it costs $50 to fill them up every week.

Take the income generated by the gas guzzler tax and direct it specifically for research and develoment in the hybrid and alternate fuel areas. I'd personally love to have a hybrid, I think they're great ideas. However, they're just not ready yet. In a few years they could be great (look about how much progress Toyota and Honda have made so far).

Also, what about a federal standard for MPG for vehicles sold in America, but without all those loopholes that lets SUVs get sold that get 10 miles to the gallon. Maybe manufacturers will actually do something productive and make a much more efficient engine using hybrid or similar tecnology. Even if the worst SUV would get 20 MPG we'd be making progress.

I'm just sick of watching people get all pissed about how the Middle East hates us, and then willfully drive their SUVs and trucks around, knowing that every dollar they pump into the tank just goes directly towards these countries!

I really don't think America's love affair with SUVs will end anytime soon, and it is a great profit maker for the auto industry, but I really think we have a responsibility to make these vehicles a little more efficient. If we need a tax to get the ball rolling, so be it.

 

[TonyC]

Currently, gasoline costs between $5 and $15/gallon, depending on the type of accounting methods we use. We (US taxpayers like me) pay for gasoline through the general income tax, as well as other taxes, and by pushing costs of gasoline into the deficit.

The price we pay at the pump only covers a fraction of the actual cost of gasoline. What's worse, our tax dollars are subsidizing the price of gas for other country's consumers. I read a British political leader's writing stating that my tax money reduces the cost of gasoline to the British consumer to the tune of $1/gallon. He said that $.70 of this $1 is our tax money going to pay for the military defense of the oil supply.

Lemme see if I read this correctly...

Gasoline costs $5 to $15 per gallon, and we're getting it for the bargain basement price of $2.35 ! ? ! ?

HOOEY !

 

[Timebuilder]

Why not extend the gas guzzler tax to things like SUVs? If your business has a need for a SUV that's great, maybe there can be some sort of credit to make up for it, but think of how many soccer moms buy Explorers just so they can feel "safe" and then b!tch when it costs $50 to fill them up every week.

Because we need fewer attempts by government to try and control our lives, not more.

Take the income generated by the gas guzzler tax and direct it specifically for research and develoment in the hybrid and alternate fuel areas. I'd personally love to have a hybrid, I think they're great ideas. However, they're just not ready yet. In a few years they could be great (look about how much progress Toyota and Honda have made so far).

The profits being currently generated by energy companies ARE being directed towards development of the next generation of energy resources. They know it is in their best interests to do so.

The Toyota and Honda vehicles are a very good idea. If there were more of them being made, and they were resonably priced (they will be in the near future) many people would buy them.

Also, what about a federal standard for MPG for vehicles sold in America, but without all those loopholes that lets SUVs get sold that get 10 miles to the gallon. Maybe manufacturers will actually do something productive and make a much more efficient engine using hybrid or similar tecnology. Even if the worst SUV would get 20 MPG we'd be making progress.

Once again, this goes against the marketplace. We value our freedom to choose the vehicles we want to drive. Among luruxy and SUV models, power is a large factor. While we make much more power from the same pound of fuel than we did in 1965, taking emissions into account, the additional power still requires additional fuel. SUV's are one area wher we compete well with imports. Take that away suddenly, and you will be unhappy with the effect on the economy.

I'm just sick of watching people get all pissed about how the Middle East hates us, and then willfully drive their SUVs and trucks around, knowing that every dollar they pump into the tank just goes directly towards these countries!

I agree, to an extent. Remember, we have a lot of oil. We have decided to not go after the oil we have. Purists don't like the oil platforms off the California coast. It's a case of "not in my backyard." Hollywood stars support this "environmental" policy, and all the while cruise about in limousines. That's why they are called limousine liberals.

I really don't think America's love affair with SUVs will end anytime soon, and it is a great profit maker for the auto industry, but I really think we have a responsibility to make these vehicles a little more efficient. If we need a tax to get the ball rolling, so be it.

If you are talking about a gas tax, you can count on direct damage to the economy. Thousands of auto workers on the street. More expensive prices due to higher delivery costs. It would be a nightmare.

Manufacturers are always working to make vehicles more fuel efficient. Customers demand it.

That's the beauty of the market.