For UAL pilots - Scope?

[Shrek]

Scope is not for sale and priority for the UAL guys is to take back scope. So as one person said on this boards "it would cost billions to cancel those regional contracts" well I seriously doubt it would be billions, but I could be wrong as I am not privee to those contracts. However, some would like to think they were. If it was billions well then there is nothing stopping us from ensuring the contracts are cancelled at the end of it's term. It is funny how a lot of regional guys feel that the flying they get through their contracts is owed to them and that they have all this power over mainline. I say it is time to park the reional 70 seater's if they want 70 seaters and then they need to be flown by mainline!

It's ironic that some the 70 seat regional guys that just don't get it - and are complaining of INsourcing of their (which it isn't) flying.

This will have a huge impact on the career and it will actually - in the long run - save theirs as well. They will kick and scream the whole way though - kinda like taking my child to the Dentist. It might be painful for a short time but they will be better for it in the end.

 

[FSIGRAD]

Scope is not for sale and priority for the UAL guys is to take back scope. So as one person said on this boards "it would cost billions to cancel those regional contracts" well I seriously doubt it would be billions, but I could be wrong as I am not privee to those contracts. However, some would like to think they were. If it was billions well then there is nothing stopping us from ensuring the contracts are cancelled at the end of it's term. It is funny how a lot of regional guys feel that the flying they get through their contracts is owed to them and that they have all this power over mainline. I say it is time to park the reional 70 seater's if they want 70 seaters and then they need to be flown by mainline!

None of us know the real cost, the only comparison I have is F9 cancelling RAH contract for 11 airplanes resulted in a $250 million dollar claim.

I also never hear any regional guys saying they are entitled to or owed any flying. That is always some mainline guy telling regional pilots how to feel.

 

[skywdriver]

There is a big difference between wanting something and being able to do it. You guys can send blast mails, vent on the internet, make phone calls, twist arms, hold your breath and stamp your feet until you turn blue. You can not cancel those contracts. Outside of bankruptcy express 170's will be flying until at least 2017.

Beat up the messenger all you want, personally I don't have a dog in your fight with Mgt. and could care less if you take it back or not. I haven't heard a single logical, real world business reason why anyone would think that flying is going away.

If you have any desire to have a career that is worth it then you should care whether we get this back or not. If you want to stay at the regionals for the rest of your career, then I understand that you don't care. However, think long and hard about this - a regional airline isn't that hard to start up as long as you show some shiny jets to some guys who want to fly "big" airplanes for cheaper. Guess what happens when companies merge - they have a ton of regional airlines competing against each other for the flying, and guess who is going to get it - the airline that will do it for the cheapest. Just something to think about.

 

[skywdriver]

There is a big difference between wanting something and being able to do it. You guys can send blast mails, vent on the internet, make phone calls, twist arms, hold your breath and stamp your feet until you turn blue. You can not cancel those contracts. Outside of bankruptcy express 170's will be flying until at least 2017.

Beat up the messenger all you want, personally I don't have a dog in your fight with Mgt. and could care less if you take it back or not. I haven't heard a single logical, real world business reason why anyone would think that flying is going away.

One more thing - I can give you a very valid "business" reason why that flying would go away and that is a joint contract that says all contract flying in jets greater than 50 seats will not be renewed. This contract is all about who has the power, and to get this deal done, the pilots groups have the power. So if they use it properly, then I could see this as a very realistic scenario. We at CAL are ready for this fight, and I would assume that the UAL guys are as well. How do you think the UAL guys feel taxiing around their hubs seeing all the "regional" aircraft as they think about how their seniority list has been shrinking since 9-11??? If you think they aren't ready for a fight to get that back, I hope you are wrong, and I think you are.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Scope is not for sale and priority for the UAL guys is to take back scope. So as one person said on this boards "it would cost billions to cancel those regional contracts" well I seriously doubt it would be billions, but I could be wrong as I am not privee to those contracts. However, some would like to think they were. If it was billions well then there is nothing stopping us from ensuring the contracts are cancelled at the end of it's term. It is funny how a lot of regional guys feel that the flying they get through their contracts is owed to them and that they have all this power over mainline. I say it is time to park the reional 70 seater's if they want 70 seaters and then they need to be flown by mainline!

Just my humble opinion, ok... say it is in the Billions.... so what. All the new CAL/UAL needs to state is that they are going to cancel the existing contracts at certain carriers at the end of their term...... like Republic, Shuttle, etc... watch that stock price fall.... An then at the same time publish they don't have a need for those airframes. Those airframs will have a dramaticlly reduced net worth... its called shift the supply/demand curve. Then you have cheap airframes and the scope you need! Im sure there is legal aspects to this... but who cares... let the loawyers sort that all out....

I think that the UAL is and Smisek wouldn't allow Republic to compete inside brands across Frontier and Republic anyways... There is a lot of shaking out to do still....

V1

 

[FSIGRAD]

One more thing - I can give you a very valid "business" reason why that flying would go away and that is a joint contract that says all contract flying in jets greater than 50 seats will not be renewed. This contract is all about who has the power, and to get this deal done, the pilots groups have the power. So if they use it properly, then I could see this as a very realistic scenario. We at CAL are ready for this fight, and I would assume that the UAL guys are as well. How do you think the UAL guys feel taxiing around their hubs seeing all the "regional" aircraft as they think about how their seniority list has been shrinking since 9-11??? If you think they aren't ready for a fight to get that back, I hope you are wrong, and I think you are.

I agree, a provision saying contracts will not be renewed is a lot different than canceling an existing contract.