For Instructors - Question About Student Personality Problem

[User546]

I have a guy that I'm working with for a biennial, and I've noticed lately a personality "flaw" that I need help no figuring out how to get around.

He's an older gentleman (in his 60's) and he currently has his private pilots license. He owns his own airplane, and I've been working on getting him thru his BFR, and bringing back up to speed all around.

However, I've noticed that anytime I go to correct him or tell him he did something wrong, he gets kind of offensive about it. For instance, yesterday we were doing touch n goes, and he forgot to bring his flaps up as we were starting to takeoff again. So I mentioned it, and he acted real irritable about it, and assured me he hadn't forgot. He had, we were just about to rotate, and his hands weren't anywhere near the flaps. We aborted the takeoff, and tried again.

Another issue he is having is not undertanding how an airplane stalls. For instance, on base or final we'll get the stall light coming on, with a nice "sink" forming in the airplane, and he'll jsut sit there and say "theres no way this airplane is stalling, we're at 92, this thing doesnt stall until 64. This inevitablly turns into a discussion that "YES, the airplane CAN stall at 92, with flaps and gear down, in a descent." He always assures me he knows what I'm talking about, and then he'll turn around and get right back into it.

So during gruond yesterday we were talking abotu stalls again, and he was getting irritated that I was teaching it to him "cause I already know all that!" He can talk the talk, but if I correct him, or tell him nicely that he's wrong, he gets really offended and irritated at me about it. Then he starts to totally block out what I'm saying.

I know other instructors have had students like this.... what do you do to get thru to them, and how is another approach I can take to making him learn and understand this stuff without him being so difficult?

Thanks in advance for the replies!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

One thing that comes to my mind is you may want to talk to your boss about it. I had a student that was pre-solo that was nowhere near ready to fly without an instructor. He used to go out of town on business trips and would fly with an instructor at another airport who assured him he was ready to solo.

He would bring this up in our conversations, and I would point out that I didn't feel he was ready. It got to the point that if the other instructor thought he was ready to solo, I told him to ask him to sign him off next time he went up there.

I kept my boss in the loop just incase it turned into one of those "my instructor is milking me for flight time" complaints, which was my initial thought in reading your post.

The tough thing about BFRs is that most people think it's a quick and painless process, when in reality most of these people are extremely rusty in an airplane.

Another possibility is to send him up with another instructor to see their take on him.

Good luck either way.

 

[Flechas]

Hey User, I've had a couple guys like this.
One of them was the same situation. Older guy, needed a BFR, wanted to get his IFR rating, but had already failed the ride 3 times.

When we started flying he proved to be rusty and was showing the same signs of agression and always trying to blame something else other than him.
After the second flight together he said that next flight we would do 3 touch and goes and I'd give him the endorsement for the BFR (he wasn't anywhere close to being proficient).
So I told him that I needed to talk to him. I told him that when we were flying, we were not in a contest of who knows more (to everything I corrected he wold say "Iknow Iknow").
I also told him that we have to have clear that I'm the instructor and you are the student, so I decide when you get my signature, not you. I told him I was more than happy to fly with him but he needed be open to learning and not give me attitude. If he didn't like my terms he could go to another instructor, I told him I know plenty that wold give him an endorsment just to make a few bucks and log a couple hrs.

All this was said in a very diplomatic an professional way.
One of the most important thing for me when I was instructing was to always do a good job, nto milk the students, and keep my reputation with students and examiners (most of my students were word of mouth, which kept me pretty busy, so I wasnt about to wreck that for a few hrs)

 

[User546]

I don't work for a flight school, I just do it freelance on the side, all by word of mouth.

I commend this guy, because he actually seeked me out and the first thing he said is "I need to get a BFR sometime, but would you be willing to go up with me for 5 or 6 flights, or however long it takes, and get me back up to speed flying this airplane." The guy recognizes that he doesn't fly very often, and his Mooney is probabably a bit much airplane for him now-a-days. I like the sending him up with another instructor idea.

The "Come to Jesus" talk might not be a bad idea as well. Theres no doubt in either of our minds who the "smarter" one is, and he aknowledges that, but he just doesn't want to be told he's wrong. When he does get told that (even in a nice diplomatic way) he shuts down and quits paying attention to me. I dont think its purposely that he's doing this, i just think its part of his personality, and like most ultra-successfull business people, he probably hasn't been told he was wrong too much in his life!

 

[Flechas]

Tell him you are not trying to hurt his pride, and ask him how does he want you to tell him when he is wron. I had one student ask me to yell at him, so I did, and we got all his rating no problem.

Instead of telling him, "hey, you did this or that wrong", after he makes a mistake you can ask him "what do you think you could have done better" so that way he brings up his mistakes, learns more, and feels betetr about himself.

 

[Mach1]

About a month ago a guy came in and wanted to talk to an instructor about a flight review. I sat down with him and within the first minute he was telling me that the regs title the BFR as just 'flight review', and that's because " you instructors don't know how to spell biennial, you usually write biannual in the logbook." He was in his late 50's and I think that it's just a confidence/intimidation problem. I just acted professional and got through it, I won't see him again for two years anyway!

 

[FlyingToIST]

All I can say is be very careful about BFRs. Period. There is this guy who is a partner on a nice single that I fly with. He is retired, in his late 60s and very sharp. He recommended that I should fly with his parter, who is a loaded up to neck with $$$$ but has a bad attitude.

He was involved with an airspace violation and class B violation. It was so bad that Seattle Approach had to divert airliners away from him. During the FAA investigation I got involved and turned out that he never got a BFR for last 30 years he was flying. He wanted one then..

It was one of the scariest experiences in my life.. He would get the airspeed to higher part of yellow arc when he was high and fast by pushing the nose down and throttle in.. He refused to do stalls because he didn't feel comfortable with them..

So, we landed back to the base and grabbed his log book.. I logged the flight and told him that we had more work to do.. He gave me the spiel of "I was flying before you were born" .. threw the logbook to my face and stiffed me for $70 ..

Last month he ended up in a ditch by the runway of a local airport. There were tire marks on the runway very bad. He was ok, but he kept it hush hush by saying "I'll get it fixed, get a new motor and will pay for everything".

I don't know if NTSB or FAA got notified , but I am glad that my signature is not in his logbook..

 

[Kream926]

your signature........your cfi #


i would say to him that i didnt feel comfortable signing him off and that he should go find someone else. period.

 

[Milkdud99]

If he "already knows everything" tell him that everyday aviation is a learning experience. If you ever feel that you've stopped learning, take a break from it. NO ONE knows everything about flying. if he knows "everything" about stalls just start talking about swept wings and eliptical wings. im sure he doens't know about that!

 

[check6]

I think older pilots have some pride and also have a hard time taking advice from younger CFIs. Flat out, however, it's a matter of safety. It's amazing how many people can't differentiate floors of Class E airspace(something I like to get picky about). I just explain that even though it is a review of stuff, it is my discretion.