For anyone considering PSA - please read this post

[lindsaya99]

Or local 69. I can't say that with a straight face. I have the same problem when I'm told to contact Seymour Johnson Approach. I guess I watched too much Beavis and Butthead when I was younger. He, he. You said "Johnson."

 

[nethan]

Or local 69. I can't say that with a straight face. I have the same problem when I'm told to contact Seymour Johnson Approach. I guess I watched too much Beavis and Butthead when I was younger. He, he. You said "Johnson."

Heh... I think they changed the name to Johnson Approach. At least that what they called it that last time I tried to dive bomb WSurf's house at EWN.

That used to be pretty funny. Seymour Johnson would hand you off to Cherry Point and then you would get to talk to Craven Tower. Fun stuff, but so not worth an 9 leg day.

 

[Smoking Man]

And you guys took the carrot (RJ's) offered by USLess Air and helped accelerate the demise of the other two whorely owned, PDT and ALG, that had decent contracts. PSA was awful quick to jump in on the concessions, J4J, etc.

Sorry dude, ya'll did it to yourselves.

In all honesty, I hope it gets better but the reality is ...

The FORMER mec voted that stuff in for the pilots.

 

[lindsaya99]

yeah, 9 legs blows. I haven't had to do that in the RJ yet. Keeping my fingers crossed. How is the hotel in STL?

 

[acaTerry]

I wrote this to someone who is interviewing, so if you are thinking about coming here please take a minute and read this first. Goodnight!


~Dude please just listen to us! This is not the place you want to be, we all wish someone had told us not to come here. And for the dude that TRIED to question my post about it being the worst all jet regional... well it sure does look like all the other pilots that work here agree with me!

Let’s Review some things.

Reserve in Charlotte is right now TODAY! 2 years (and I'm not talking about getting a build up line maybe, I'm talking to get a hard line)

Charlotte is the only base you can commute from - Dayton and Knoxville if you’re LUCKY, you might be able to commute on one side. Not one line was commutable on both sides out of Dayton and has not been in months. Corporate makes them like that on purpose.

The MAX days off company wide is usually 14 days (sometimes 15 on a build up)

Very very few lines award all weekends off... So you've got that going for you if you work here 20 years!

They mess up the pay checks quite a bit

The pilot group can't all get on one page because we have too many people with different agenda's. PSA has 5 year FO's waiting to upgrade; Lifers; guys that have interviews soon with majors; and Jet for Jobs guys who are pissed because they are being held 9 month. So everyone wants the union to fight for different things so most of the time nothing is accomplished.

Our contract is very weak, and the company violates it all the time, and the only thing you can do is file a grievance and that will take months if not years to be heard. The company knows this so they just break the rules because all that ever happens is they get a slap on the wrist.

Things we have or don't have:

A decent FO pay rate - 29 bucks an hour second year, and 31 for a 3rd year.
What this means is that you'll be poor very poor. Because not only does the rate suck but other things make it hard for you to make some extra money.

NO duty rigs

Half pay for a dead head

Hot reserve at the airport for 10 hours that they only pay you 1.35 an hour for. Most places either don't have hot reserve or you're paid a Min of 3 or 4 hours if you do have to do it

Schedules that have so few days off it's almost impossible to pick up open trips

The open time is MAYBE updated once a day, but never over the weekend.
Which means it's not LIVE so you could be trying to pick up something that already been awarded to someone else. And it will take a day or two to find out if you are approved or denied, and by then you have missed out on something else.

Trip swapping or Dropping very hard if not impossible, Sometimes you can trade a 4 day for a 4 day but never drop it all together.

If you drop a 3 day and pick up a 4 day you will NOT be paid premium pay for your extra day at work. Otherwise known as SDO pay. The company seems to think that there is a difference between picking up a 4 day and having a 3 day and just finding an out and back (1 day trip) in open time and picking that up. NOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? See what I'm getting at flight school guys? Do you see the scum bag style of Management we have here?

No trip touch for vacations. That means they will fly you right up to the afternoon before the first day of your vacation.

TWO round bidding. Which sucks because if you are right on the line of getting round one or two you never know how many people will bypass round one which means you won't know how far down the list you'll be pushed.

If you’re on reserve and you're a commuter have fun because they don't care and will give you 5am hot reserve your first day and fly you till midnight on your last day. Kind of like I'm doing tomorrow!

You will be required to be current on both airplanes and will not be paid near enough money for your troubles.

HUGE sits at the airport in between flight, I'm doing 4 hours tomorrow.

Trips like this:
First day show at 5am. 6 Legs worth 4 hours of pay

Second day 2 legs worth maybe 2 hours of pay. Get to PNS check for bed bugs at the Microtel (yes the F-ing Microtel)

Show time changes to late shift. day 3 maybe 3 or 4 legs. Get to Savannah late looking for food and you'll notice there is none for miles (a complete violation of the contract, but does this get changed NOOO and you'll lie in bed asking yourself why do I pay union dues?) So once you can't fall asleep from hunger you can walk down to the lobby and buy your ass some microwave meatball from the skany chick that works there. Oh and PS they lock the doors to the hotel because it's in such a nice part of town, I spent Christmas there and I had the microwave food for Christmas diner!

Day 4 late show... 6 or 7 legs or even better maybe 3 or 4 legs with a two 3 hour sits thrown in. Get home mad late!

Overnights with people way older then your parents who just want to slam click. Which in reality won't matter because the overnight is probably around nothing fun or it's so short you just need to go to bed.

A commuter policy that has not been approved by the union and was only put out there to try and make nice when the 900 negotiations were going on. The commuter policy is not recognized by the union and is basically useless, and has some messed up things they can do to you when you call in and try to use it.

Oh ya, The 900's. About every few months the company will come to us and ask if we want to fly them for 50 seat rates. The pilot group will say "shove it" and then the company will take back the offer instead of negotiate.

A Fleet that was promised to be 80 airplanes that only grew to around 40. But hey we'll still take all the guys laid off from Mainline even though US Air didn't hold up their end of the deal. Isn't bankruptsy fun!

You will fly with really cool nice guys and girls - but they have been beaten down for so long it's sucked the life out of them and all they do is complain the whole trip, which will make you complain eventually!

Hmm have I said enough PSA Guys or should I go on... And for you guys that don't work here please don't think I'm just being bitchy, any PSA guy on here can back this up.


Anyways, the list goes on and on and on

- For argument sake, you can ask yourself is Mesa or a place like that worse?

Let’s see....

They have almost the same terrible pay rate (which is a few bucks below places like express jet, sky west etc)

They don't have the best contracts...

But wait they do have a fast upgrades

And they do have some growth

And they're probably not part of this crappy US Airways management team.

- - Most of us wish we had someone tell us this before we came, so take this knowledge and put your resume in with another place. They all suck but they don't all suck this bad my friends!

--- If some of us had been smarter and not held out hope we would be gone. The only reason most of us FO's are sticking around is because we really thought things might get better but they didn't and now we have invested too much time. Please don't make the same mistakes we made.

Look at it like this? Is it to our (PSA FO's) advantages to get on here and tell you this? We NEED you to come so we can get some seniority. Thing is that it's so so bad that we can't let you make this mistake!

~ ~ ~ So my flight school friends what have we learned? I think we have learned there is no reason to come here!

I think thisis TSA, not PSA.

 

[LyodChristmas]

4 hour sit has now turned into a 5 hour sit because of a delay. You gotta love this place!

Oh and "we are in junior man mode" again!

We've been in junior man mode for the last year and a half :smash:

 

[dash_trash]

The FORMER mec voted that stuff in for the pilots.

I believe the pilot group had to vote on the concessions and everything that went with it??? Regardless, what was done certainly is not in the best interest of the PSA pilot group.

 

[climbhappy]

ya gotta ask yourself are the guys with three squares and a cot better off?

it sounds like a prison sentence

 

[LoveGun]

I believe the pilot group had to vote on the concessions and everything that went with it??? Regardless, what was done certainly is not in the best interest of the PSA pilot group.

Yes, the MEC voted that stuff through themselves. The pilot group voted down the concessionary contract, I believe we voted it down 60% to 40%. However, the MEC decided to pass the contract at the MEC level even after it was voted down by the pilots. It's a totally legal move under ALPA bylaws.

Our crappy former MEC was voted in during the high flying late nineties. At that point no one cared who was running the union. No one thought they would work at this dump for more than three years. "Why rock the boat -- let the red neck lifers run the union" was the comon logic of the time. What a huge mistake -- those guys were totally unprepared to deal with the challenges of dealing with bankrupcy, and the mainline MEC.
The PSA pilots got steam rolled. The really sad part is when you talk to the old MEC supporters they still believe we worked the the best deal possible and out-foxed all other pilot groups.

PSA sucks. Wait a few more months and get hired at Skywest or Republic. Don't waste your prime years pumping up Doug Parkers stock value. US Airways has never valued its employees and at PSA you are at the bottom of the heap. Everyone know the saying about "... rolls downhill".

 

[dash_trash]

I was unaware your MEC went against the majority. All the promises Useless Air made at the time were hard to keep track of. All 3 whorelly owned carriers got the big ****, but ALG took it the hardest. Good luck to ya'll, I'm sooooooo glad I don't have to deal with Useless Air any more.

 

[d328pilot]

I just got my last paycheck in the mail from PSA.. I worked 5 days in the pay period and they actually cut me a check for 0.00. How nice of them...Good riddence.

 

[mamba20]

D328, the same thing just happened to me. I checked and rechecked and they stole from me once again. . . .

 

[Cottonmouth]

It is criminal at PSA. Just stay away from PSA.

 

[svcta]

they wrote me a check fo .82 cents and then one for 0.00 before they were done with me. And I had worked a least one 4 day in that pay period, as I recall. I had sick time and money in the uniform account that I just left behind.

It's a shame when you have to double check your pay twice a month to make sure you're not getting nickel and dimed out of $$ you've earned.

 

[328dude]

Lear Love, your insecurities are so obvious. I bet you're one of those guys that hangs out at a small town FBO on your days off trying to impress everyone.

We have all heard about your penis size from the gay FA's, but guess what, they now have operations for that. This is a real life limitation for you. Get over yourself and for God's sake, star using your preparation H again! So, I guess you're the only one being laughed at

Don't disrespect a " E-170 mainline pilot" on a regional board, it's bad carma.

 

[LyodChristmas]

I hope all you flight school guys are reading this and getting the message! STAY AWAY!

To our Management, Have fun trying to run this place with no pilots!

 

[cldsfr79]

That explanation that LyodChristmas gave sounds pretty standard to me for flying at a regional. It is what it is. I flew at a regional for several years; didn’t have a union to protect us, and probably worked harder for less money. I'm a little tired of all you guys with 500 hours, that jump on the regionals with the ink still drying on your certificates, whom then complain about the hard airline life. If this was 5 or more years ago, you would have need a couple of thousand hours just to be looked at. The guys back in the 80s had to work for years flying freight at night just to build several thousand hours….just enough to get a regional job. You should appreciate the job opportunity you have. Life is never going to be easy at a regional. The company knows that they can replace you with a hundred other guys willing to work harder than you and get paid less, so that is why things will never be great at a regional. You think the major airline life is going to be better? Yeah, you will get paid more, but it will be the same old stuff going on. If you hate where you work at, look at corporate flying, look at the fractionals, look at charter. There are many different things to do out there.

 

[mamba20]

There is no doubt PSA is a rough place to be. I for one don't have a great deal of positives to say about its operation and the way its run. Which is shame. The majority of the pilot group are outstanding people and lots of fun to work with and the airline itself could be a great place to work.

It does serve a purpose though. If you do decide to go there, get some time and get out. There ARE majors hiring without turbine PIC time and the grass IS greener on the other side!

 

[svcta]

That explanation that LyodChristmas gave sounds pretty standard to me for flying at a regional. It is what it is. I flew at a regional for several years; didn’t have a union to protect us, and probably worked harder for less money. I'm a little tired of all you guys with 500 hours, that jump on the regionals with the ink still drying on your certificates, whom then complain about the hard airline life. If this was 5 or more years ago, you would have need a couple of thousand hours just to be looked at. The guys back in the 80s had to work for years flying freight at night just to build several thousand hours….just enough to get a regional job. You should appreciate the job opportunity you have. Life is never going to be easy at a regional. The company knows that they can replace you with a hundred other guys willing to work harder than you and get paid less, so that is why things will never be great at a regional. You think the major airline life is going to be better? Yeah, you will get paid more, but it will be the same old stuff going on. If you hate where you work at, look at corporate flying, look at the fractionals, look at charter. There are many different things to do out there.

First of all, I do not fall in to the category you are aiming this comment at. That being said, the flaw in your logic is thinking that just because someone doesn't have a great deal of experience they deserve to be treated the way I know that PSA treats its employees. I hated it and I quit because of it. Everything mentioned prior to this I can back up as complete fact.

The additional flaw in your logic is that one shouldn't complain because it's par for the course. While I don't think that it truly is, that still doesn't matter. That's like saying that POWs shouldn't have complained about the conditions at the Hanoi Hilton (extreme analogy, but you get the point). "It's a POW camp, what do you expect?"

 

[ex j-41]

To say a "regional is a regional" and to expect just that, is not right.
A pilot at a regional or at mainline is still a pilot and should be treated as such. There should be little or no difference in the way we get treated vs a major airline pilot. Why does US Airways have $2/hr per diem and we have $1.34? Does food cost less for regional pilots? Does starbucks give us a regional discount? Just because we fly 9 legs instead of 2 doesn't mean we should be treated like 3rd class citizens.
Our management tells us that the SSO books our hotels? Then why would the SSO put us in different hotels then mainline? Cause its all lies, lies and more lies.

 

[Axel]

There are minor differences; some things better, some things worse, but life at PSA sounds eerily like life at RAH.

 

[dash_trash]

That explanation that LyodChristmas gave sounds pretty standard to me for flying at a regional. It is what it is. I flew at a regional for several years; didn’t have a union to protect us, and probably worked harder for less money. I'm a little tired of all you guys with 500 hours, that jump on the regionals with the ink still drying on your certificates, whom then complain about the hard airline life. If this was 5 or more years ago, you would have need a couple of thousand hours just to be looked at. The guys back in the 80s had to work for years flying freight at night just to build several thousand hours….just enough to get a regional job. You should appreciate the job opportunity you have. Life is never going to be easy at a regional. The company knows that they can replace you with a hundred other guys willing to work harder than you and get paid less, so that is why things will never be great at a regional. You think the major airline life is going to be better? Yeah, you will get paid more, but it will be the same old stuff going on. If you hate where you work at, look at corporate flying, look at the fractionals, look at charter. There are many different things to do out there.

And a friend of mine retired in the top 25 of United, before concessions and bankruptcy. He was hired with less tha 275 hours and without an instrument rating. Not bad for a guy who made more than $350/hour on the 747-400!!!

Pilot are their own worst enemy: "I just need the time, I'll fly for free." It's like saying my parents left the planet a complete piece of sh*t, so I'll leave it the same way for my kids!

We, pilots as a whole, should be raising the bar not lowering it and not accepting the "that's how it is at the regionals, fractionals, nationals, LCC's, etc."

 

[LyodChristmas]

I must say these are some of the best posts I've seen on here in a long time.

We're Pilots we shouldn't be treated like this!

I really think we are coming to the point where we are all going to start fighting back. Whether it be the unions growing more of a backbone, the pilots getting the word on the street to guy at flight schools about how bad of a job it is, or whatever. It seems like we might be turning a cornor on "taking it back"! It's due time we start thinking out of the box on how to take some shots at management!

 

[mcjohn]

The pilot group can't all get on one page because we have too many people with different agenda's. PSA has 5 year FO's waiting to upgrade; Lifers; guys that have interviews soon with majors; and Jet for Jobs guys who are pissed because they are being held 9 month. So everyone wants the union to fight for different things so most of the time nothing is accomplished.

This HAS been the reason for the weak contract right? You kind of make it clear that the guys with interviews at the majors will be leaving and we know the J4J recalls start soon so they'll all be out of the picture in a year or so at the most. Leaves at little room for optimism ey?

This is no doubt a place to get some time. Probably fly about 90 hours a month right?

Thanks for posting info on what to expect at more than just a few regionals. As the cost of student training goes up and the more students or prospective students learn all this, they'd be wise not to accumulate 80-120 grand in debt just to get there. There may be a pilot shortage brewing. I like to think so 'cause it makes me feel so f'ing special! (I know, I know....stop kidding myself.)

Anyway, looks like you guys are living kind of a lower end freight dawg lifestyle flying human cargo. Many folks out there are used to the QOL of life and schedule you are experiencing. They just don't have to shave, dress nice, or play nice as they fly boxes or have to deal with "FBO rot" as they sit around for much more than just 4 hours sometimes (the time you posted) waiting for another plane or the courier.

Sucks about the slam and clickers you mentioned. Take charge and go have some fun, hitch hike out to a titty bar or something. I kid.

Aaaanyway. I say be careful, don't burn your bridges too badly there. So many are quitting, why don't you just join them. That sends the message to management. I know some of you all have been there many years and that it used to be an awesome job so you're kind of locked in and all but you've got to do what you've got to do.

To me the regionals equal great training and experience that reward you with turbine PIC in a certain time frame. If anything in that formula is not happening (bad training, not flying so not building experience, or no upgrade in sight) then it's time to move on quickly and cut your losses.

 

[mcjohn]

There are minor differences; some things better, some things worse, but life at PSA sounds eerily like life at RAH.

Funny you mention that. Word is that PSA pilots are leaving for RAH in droves as soon as they have the time. Oooops!

Better pay and upgrade though I bet.

 

[ex j-41]

Any word on the Hotel in JAN? Is it as crappy as all the rest? Is there somewhere to eat? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[LyodChristmas]

Any word on the Hotel in JAN? Is it as crappy as all the rest? Is there somewhere to eat? Anyone? Bueller?

I haven't overnighted there yet.

 

[Volasl]

no place to eat. set your alarm to eat breakfast in the lobby or you will go hungry. Nice outside doors facing the interstate that you have to walk down a dark alley to get too. need i say more?

 

[ponder]

Haha.....suckers!!!!