Focus Air Second Officer

[Draginass]

Are you referring to dragon breath?

I guess if you can't make your arguement stick, you resort to elementary school namecalling. Very mature. This is too easy. Keep digging.

 

[JohnnyP]

...

Draginass,

What I do agree with is that it would be out of line to put a 250hr piston pilot into a 747, panel or not, which is what I gather this SO program is. But, like i said before you gotta be new to the 747 at some time or another, and I guess im not sure where one would go to cut their teeth on a 747, other than a lower tier freight operation. I dont think guys are going to cathay or united to get initial 747/heavy time, then going onto one of the miami freight operator's heading down to latin america. I would think it would be a normal progression for someone looking to get into a 747 to get hired on by one of the cargo operators doing mainly international work. But then again, not having any heavy time myself I dont really have a dog in this one, just an outsiders perspective. Its possible I may be way off base, its happened before.

 

[kevdog]

I guess if you can't make your arguement stick, you resort to elementary school namecalling. Very mature. This is too easy. Keep digging.

Didn't know I had an argument. Keep blowing the smoke up your ass.

 

[Draginass]

Draginass,

What I do agree with is that it would be out of line to put a 250hr piston pilot into a 747, panel or not, which is what I gather this SO program is. But, like i said before you gotta be new to the 747 at some time or another, and I guess im not sure where one would go to cut their teeth on a 747, other than a lower tier freight operation. I dont think guys are going to cathay or united to get initial 747/heavy time, then going onto one of the miami freight operator's heading down to latin america. I would think it would be a normal progression for someone looking to get into a 747 to get hired on by one of the cargo operators doing mainly international work. But then again, not having any heavy time myself I dont really have a dog in this one, just an outsiders perspective. Its possible I may be way off base, its happened before.

The demographics of the tramp freighter outfits change (as you would expect) with the hiring patterns of the industry in general. Six years ago, the good paying carriers were hiring and attracting those with the best experience and credentials. In the past few years, with the massive furloughes from the majors, the supply of well-experienced pilots and lack of decent companies to work for meant a good supply of experience for the freighter outfits.

Several people on this board aren't reading close enough. I'm not avocating that you have to have 747 experience to fly a 747. Many of the 747 freighter crewmembers have lots of great previous experience in 727s, DC-8s, 737s or whatever, and flying internationally. That's great experience and and a good record there would lead me to believe that person would be also an easy fit in the whale. If I have a 727 captain or FO flying internationally with 15 years experience, a great attitude, personality, and record, and I've got an 7 year of 121 experienced Saab Captain flying almost exclusively in the US, also with a great attitude, personality and record, I'm going to go with the guy that has the proven experience closest to what I'm going to be asking him to do. It's only common business sense. I realize that may rankle some of the younger pilots out there, but the young guys don't have a monopoly on attitude and desire.

With regards to putting a very young pilot in a flight engineers panel for a year, AFTER a year of mailroom duty, that not right. Young and inexperienced pilots need to fly, and fly alot . . working themselves into more and more complex and demanding aircraft and flight environments. I think this second officer program is setting up some good guys to fail by ignoring their basic development in the profession.

 

[big_al]

the simple answer is for these companies that do anything for the bottom line is younger guys demand less $$ and are far easier to screw over and take it

 

[McNugget]

Arrogance, a low maturity level, and inexperience does not serve a pilot well in a demanding flying environment.

You got a problem I can help you with?

 

[Draginass]

You got a problem I can help you with?

Congrats. You've graduated to junior high. Kevdog must have handed you the shovel.

 

[McNugget]

That's what I thought, nothing but a punk.

 

[Draginass]

Me a punk? You're the one with your doll collection as your avatar.

This really is too easy.

 

[McNugget]

Me a punk? You're the one with your doll collection as your avatar.

This really is too easy.

You're pretty funny dude......

 

[McNugget]

Draginass,

What I do agree with is that it would be out of line to put a 250hr piston pilot into a 747, panel or not, which is what I gather this SO program is. But, like i said before you gotta be new to the 747 at some time or another, and I guess im not sure where one would go to cut their teeth on a 747, other than a lower tier freight operation. I dont think guys are going to cathay or united to get initial 747/heavy time, then going onto one of the miami freight operator's heading down to latin america. I would think it would be a normal progression for someone looking to get into a 747 to get hired on by one of the cargo operators doing mainly international work. But then again, not having any heavy time myself I dont really have a dog in this one, just an outsiders perspective. Its possible I may be way off base, its happened before.

Your perspective is not off-base. Some of these guys think they ought to get a friggin medal for flying to SA, but it is really just another flying job.....as far as the actual flying goes....For a lot of us, it is/was just another step on the ladder, it is no place to make a career for yourself. The money is good compared to a regional, but you will always be subject to furloughs and management that doesn't give a crap about you.

I think that's where Draginass's perspective comes into play....it's not really flying an airplane, it's the fact that you are out there on your own once you leave Miami. It's all on the captain and crew, if the crap hits the fan they are going to end up on the wrong side of it. That means making sure EVERYBODY in the operation has done their job correctly...not so much like a major airline where you have good operational support and you get to print out your flight plan and go fly (not to minimalize the role of a major airline pilot, they just have a great advantage here). The company would just as soon hang you out to dry to avoid fines and collect the insurance money when something goes wrong. You will get old before your time if you stay at a place like that. Definitely no place for a captain with no experience...however you can go from an RJ to flying right-seat in a heavy to gain that experience, and it should not be like rocket science to fly to South America once you reach that level in your career.

 

[ironspud]

On topic, off topic, namecalling, on topic, off topic, namecalling. SSDD

 

[McNugget]

On topic, off topic, namecalling, on topic, off topic, namecalling. SSDD

True. I'm over it....back on topic, as you can see....^^^^. Don't need to keep stooping to that level. Especially on some internet message board.

 

[Publishers]

Every argument on these boards goes back to this. The fact is that of all the resumes and interviews I have done in the last few months, 60% of the pilots have not done flight instruction or that type of thing. Franlky it has amazed me the number of people that got almost immediately into a right seat of a jet and then got their type rating.

 

[McNugget]

Just nameless cheap McNuggets in the box, my friend!

 

[Flying Ninja]

Every argument on these boards goes back to this. The fact is that of all the resumes and interviews I have done in the last few months, 60% of the pilots have not done flight instruction or that type of thing. Franlky it has amazed me the number of people that got almost immediately into a right seat of a jet and then got their type rating.

Low timers with a lack of experience are less likely to b!tch and moan about the good ole days. Give the rookies a bone and they'll be estatic. Give an old timer the same bone, well, you better make sure there's a phatty chunk of meat around it.

Management knows what they're doing. They're weeding out those that would cause them problems down the line. What's that line in Braveheart? "If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."

 

[Draginass]

Low timers with a lack of experience are less likely to b!tch and moan about the good ole days. Give the rookies a bone and they'll be estatic. Give an old timer the same bone, well, you better make sure there's a phatty chunk of meat around it.

Management knows what they're doing. They're weeding out those that would cause them problems down the line. What's that line in Braveheart? "If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."

That may be true for the first year or so, but new guys don't stay unjaded for long if they're constantly being screwed. When they get the time and experience behind them and become more marketable, they're no different from the "well-shopworn" guys.