FMS warning for non-aligned takeoff?

[Hugh Jorgan]

Does anyone here fly a system that has a takeoff warning associated with an aircraft heading that doesn't agree with a selected FMS departure runway? I know there are runway mismatch warnings in some systems, but I believe those are based on aircraft position, not heading. If two runways start from essentially the same point as appears to me to be the case in Lexington, that's not enough disparity to trigger the warning? If that's they case, I would guess partway into a takeoff roll, divergence would trigger a mismatch warning too late to abort if it's a significanly shorter runway. I guess the FDR in yesterdays' accident will tell us plenty. Just wondering if any FMS geeks have any flame-free thoughts.

 

[Baby Cakes]

There is no such capability today in aircraft FMS's.

 

[GCD]

It's technique and procedure at a lot of carriers to set the heading bug to the runway heading as soon as it is assigned or advised on the ATIS. The runway checks then should include scanning instruments for the proper heading alignment on all heading indicators and heading bugs.

No person is perfect or makes a perfect plan.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

Those who have taxied to 22 at LEX at night know how easy it is to want to just turn left and line up on 26.

Just about every time I've been there under similar conditions, I have had to fight that natural tendency, read the signs and go real slow around that whole cocked-up hold line/runway cross/left turn/2nd hold line/2nd runway area. It is so easy to see how this could happen. I haven't been there in a while, but I hear there is contruction and as a result it's currently even MORE confusing than usual. This really could have been any of us.

 

[Mike man]

An FMS warning system seems like a doable thing. Enter the departure runway, then once the AHRS gets a bearing missaligned by a few degrees, trigger a warning. But what about MCO, ATL or other airports with 17L/17R and 18L/18R all with the same heading? Who knows...hopefuly in the future we will have such a thing.

 

[spinproof]

Those who have taxied to 22 at LEX at night know how easy it is to want to just turn left and line up on 26.

Just about every time I've been there under similar conditions, I have had to fight that natural tendency, read the signs and go real slow around that whole cocked-up hold line/runway cross/left turn/2nd hold line/2nd runway area. It is so easy to see how this could happen. I haven't been there in a while, but I hear there is contruction and as a result it's currently even MORE confusing than usual. This really could have been any of us.

Yes...and in a way it was...

A Delta Connection CRJ operated by Comair departing Lexington, Kentucky crashed less than a mile beyond the runway at 6:07am EDT this morning. 49 people died. One person (believed to be the first officer) is in critical condition at the University of Kentucky hospital.

Background
Blue Grass Airport (Lexington, KY) is equipped with two runways. 04/22 is 7000ft x 150ft and 08/26 is 3500ft x 75ft. Developing information says the aircraft was cleared for takeoff from runway 22 which was acknowledged only by a "roger" from the pilots. The aircaft is to believed to have taken off from runway 26, which is half the length of 22 and would have left the aircraft with insufficient room for takeoff.

FlightAware has no flight tracking information for the flight, COM191, besides the flight plan.

The aircraft tail number (not confirmed) is believed to be N431CA (aircraft registration information: N431CA)

Airline Pilot Warned Of Confusing Runway Layout
FlightAware has discovered that in 1993, the pilot of an air carrier filed a report with the NASA ASRS (aviation safety reporting system) after nearly departing from runway 26 when instructed to depart from runway 22 at Lexington.

The report reads, "Aircraft was cleared for immediate takeoff (traffic was inside the marker) on runway 22 at KLEX. We taxied onto the runway and told tower we needed a moment to check our departure routing with our weather radar (storms were in the area, raining at the airport). We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at that moment, tower called us to cancel the takeoff clearance because we were lined up on runway 26. We taxied clear and then held short of runway 22 for landing traffic. We took off on runway 22 and proceeded without incident. Possible contributing factors were poor visibbility and weather (rain. Confusing runway intersection and tower's request for an immediate takeoff. Suggest possible warning page (similar to Houston Hobby) to clarify multiple runway ends."

The pilot's reference to Houston Hobby's disclaimer is available on FlightAware's airport information page for Houston Hobby (KHOU). The remark reads:

"DUE TO COMPLEX RY CONFIGURATION; WHEN TAXIING TO THRS 12L & 12R AND 17 CHECK COMPASS HEADING BEFORE DEPARTING."

No similar information is available for Lexington airport.

Air Traffic Control Terminology
When given a taxi instruction, aircraft are implicitly cleared across any runway between their current position and the taxi destination. Accordingly, an aircraft being instructed to taxi to runway 22 at KLEX from the terminal could be instructed, "taxi to runway two two" without being told, "cross runway two six."

 

[Regul8r]

Why would you need such a system?

 

[VABB]

Does anyone here fly a system that has a takeoff warning associated with an aircraft heading that doesn't agree with a selected FMS departure runway?

It's called your eyeballs. Use them to cross-check your heading indication and also to take a look at the moving map.

We need less automation and more common sense.

 

[John Pennekamp]

It's called your eyeballs. Use them to cross-check your heading indication and also to take a look at the moving map.

We need less automation and more common sense.

With that I'll agree. Too many RJ pilots get too reliant on the automation and forget about basic pilotage. Many pilots never flew any airliner except the CRJ. Those of us who flew turboprops or less automated jets are at a definite advantage.

A friend who is on the ATR was telling me about jumpseating with one of our RJ crews who did a night go-around in Asheville, NC runway 16 (because they couldn't get down in time). Tower told them to fly right traffic "at or above 3500". They leveled off at 3500', but didn't account for being 5 miles from the airport! The jumpseater tried to convince the captain to climb, and the captain ARGUED! When the GPWS gave him a Terain, Pull UP! it got his attention.

Basic situational awareness is what all pilots need to strive for. I fly the -700 now. It's hard, but you have to keep your own mental picture of where you are and not just rely on the map.

 

[Huck]

It's called RAAS. We got it last year in our MD10/11s. It gave verbal alerts when you entered a runway and when you lined up on final.

It worked great, except it was louder than the radio and guys were missing too many calls, so they deactivated it until they could fix it.

Here's a Raytheon article:

On the commercial side, avionics giant Honeywell has done extensive research into the problem of
runway incursions and has recently won an STC for its runway awareness and advisory system
(RAAS). RAAS is unique in that it does not require new equipment, either on the ground or in the
aircraft, as long as that aircraft is already equipped with Honeywell’s enhanced ground proximity
warning system (EGPWS).
EGPWS already keeps track of aircraft position through GPS, and it has a terrain database that
includes runway position. Using the existing equipment, Honeywell developed a software upgrade that
warns pilots when they’re approaching a runway.
“EGPWS already keeps track of active runways to protect against landing short,” says RAAS Engineer
Ratan Khatwa. “Since we know where you are and where the runways are, this provided us with the
opportunity to significantly reduce runway incursions.”
RAAS’s runway-related aural advisory functions are similar to Ground Marker’s. As a crew taxis near a
runway, RAAS will announce over the cockpit speaker, “Approaching Runway 27 Right.” Testing by
Honeywell has shown that not only does this announcement increase ground situation awareness— it
also helps crews ensure they are setting up for take off on the correct runway.
RAAS includes additional functions. While descending through 750 ft, the system will announce the
name of the runway ahead of the aircraft. If that runway is shorter than a user-selectable value, RAAS
will announce the available runway length. During landing roll or during a rejected takeoff, the distance
remaining to the end of the runway will be announced every 1000 ft. In all RAAS makes 10 different
types of aural announcement, each of which Honeywell says it selected because of a specific runway
incursion incident.
“Each of the RAAS modes exists today because of the data searched during our runway incursions
analysis,” says Khatwa. “Right now, RAAS does not include any information about taxiways because
there wasn’t enough detailed data on taxiway positions with the accuracy needed to include it at this
time.”
Future plans for RAAS include a detailed moving map of the taxiway environment when data becomes
available and, with the aid of automatic dependent surveillance– broadcast (ADS-B), the display of
other aircraft around the airport.​