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spitfire1940
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
- Posts
- 162
I agree with the others.
What it comes down to is this: for many of us, aviation is a great second job. It can take a long time to provide enough to be the only job.
It would be nice if they paid me more, but it is what it is. I do it because I like it and because I've done other things I don't like. At some point, there will be a payoff.
What it comes down to is this: for many of us, aviation is a great second job. It can take a long time to provide enough to be the only job.
It would be nice if they paid me more, but it is what it is. I do it because I like it and because I've done other things I don't like. At some point, there will be a payoff.
imp:make a hell of a lot more than most pilots.:beer:
climbhappy
ex pat
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Posts
- 2,159
nice oratory all the way to the last question.
Question: Is it possible to change the mentality in the industry, and how do we as pilots do that?
It is nonsense.
Pilots cannot change an economic reality by their will. They do not finance the purchase of the assets. They do not set the price for the service. It is ludicrous to suggest that pilots can determine their fate. The answer is NO.
Someone once said, " Your compensation in life is directly tied to the level of difficulty of the problem you solve while performing your vocation.
What amazes me is that the airlines recognized in the late 80's that pilots were whores and would pay 10,000 for an interview. Once that it was obvious, and today it has morphed into pay for training, owners saw an endless pipeline of supply for these so called "whores" to sit in their high speed tubes and fly off into the sunset making on average 8 to ten bucks an hour factoring in duty time.
Question: Is it possible to change the mentality in the industry, and how do we as pilots do that?
It is nonsense.
Pilots cannot change an economic reality by their will. They do not finance the purchase of the assets. They do not set the price for the service. It is ludicrous to suggest that pilots can determine their fate. The answer is NO.
Someone once said, " Your compensation in life is directly tied to the level of difficulty of the problem you solve while performing your vocation.
What amazes me is that the airlines recognized in the late 80's that pilots were whores and would pay 10,000 for an interview. Once that it was obvious, and today it has morphed into pay for training, owners saw an endless pipeline of supply for these so called "whores" to sit in their high speed tubes and fly off into the sunset making on average 8 to ten bucks an hour factoring in duty time.
BizPilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2004
- Posts
- 132
Consider These Options
I don't want to bore you all with "my story". But I want to share it with you to let you know there is a lot of happiness in aviation out there other than just flying planes. First, though, My story so you understand:
I graduated from UND in 1996. Took my 1st CFI job making $16,000 a year. All after earning a 4-year degree and certificates. After 6 months, I decided to CFI elsewhere, hoping for more money. Moved to a new location only to make $16,000 a year after being told I would have more students. So I supplemented my income with credit cards. Built up a debt of $6000.00. Got a job at Home Depot to supplement my CFI income and to pay off my debts. Worked 50 to 60 work weeks (including weekends). After 1 year earned my 1st part 135 job flying air freight. Starting pay was $14,500 a year - to fly/manage a C402B at an outstation base. Working hours were 8pm to 2am, break, and 5am to 6am. 4 days a week. Did this for 6 months flying through thunderstorms, moderate icing, and in 1970's equipment with nightly equipment failures (I'm not complaining....just telling you how it was...and I wouldn't take back the experience...it was all worth it....glad I did it for those who want to start bashing me....this is the reality of the career building process). Landed my first break with Co-Ex flying ATR-42's/72's in the late 1990's. Launched off to Houston for training. Starting pay at the time was about $17,000 a year, right seat, flying 48 and 68 passenger prop's around the southern states. Slept in a crashpad - 2 bedroom apartment, shared with 5 other pilots. A couch, 13 inch TV with rabbit ears, and air mattresses scattered throughout. Did this for 1 year (11 months). Heard about a Part 135 charter job in the Midwest from a buddy. Decided to "take a step back" in order to make-a-living. It was an instant $12,000 a year pay increase. Flew twin Cessna's around the Midwest for 2 years at $29,000 a year......(after 8 years, finally broke the $20,000 a year mark). I was very happy. No I wasn't doing what I wanted for "my aviation dream", but I was home nearly every night in my own bed. Bought my 1st house and saw my wife nearly every day who miraculously had stayed with me during all this time (since I left UND). Then the day hit we all dread to hear - 9/11. Three of us were let go from the 135 outfit within the next 6 months. I sent resumes out for the next 6 months with no avail. I was depressed. Took a job working for a local electronics company as an assembler. Starting pay was $30,000 a year, full 401k match, ESOP plan, 3 weeks vacation starting out, 4 day work weeks (day shift). I did this for the next three years. But I became depressed like most of you would - I fully understand the "love of aviation." All I could do was dream about flying planes as I snapped computer parts together. I began to explore "Other" jobs in aviaiton. Doing internet searches I found a ton of non-flying aviation jobs that paid good money.
There are tons of non-flying opportunities for Pilots out there in aviation, with good pay. NOBODY should be complaining about the aviation industry. You just need to seek it out a bit. For example - Cirrus Design in Duluth, all kinds of jobs. Also, there are nearly 25 VLJ (very light jet) manufacturers that are firing-up assembly lines looking for business professionals in Marketing, Finance, Demo-Pilots, Test Pilots, Contract Administration, etc. that all pay in excess of $30K a year starting (usually with full benefits too). Then there are companies like Honeywell, Allied Signal, Rockwell Collins, Boeing, Cessna, Gulfstream, Bombardier, etc. They are all looking for people with aviation backgrounds. I landed a job with one of the above last year. I have been told by my co-workers countless times how lucky I am to have previous aviation experience as a Pilot. They look up to me for my advice, and techncial perspective on a regular basis. It couldn't be more satisfying knowing the 'crappy' 10 years I had as a Pilot are now truely paying off in a professional career.
And what about the flying?? Well my company has a flying club (and most of the above do if you look into it). I have the choice to fly three aircraft at my discretion at reduced rental rates. My wife and I fly TOGETHER at least on a weekly basis now. Out to eat at fancy restaurants, we go to concerts in large cities, and visit friends and family scattered all over the country. I am working a career that I love - AVIATION. My pay is in excess of $50K (Starting Sal.). I live in a home much larger than I ever dreamed. I get to log 3 or 4 hours a flight time a week on my own time. My wife doesn't have to work full-time anymore. She gets to see me everyday.
So don't be let down by Pilot Pay! Get out there and search a bit. There are tons of gratifying jobs in aviation where you can be "around airplanes" all day long and be paid good money for your "background".
If you need more help - PM me and I will assist you with all kinds of resources. Life couldn't be better right now......and I know my company is looking for 7,000 additional workers over the next 3 years. Good luck and FLY SAFE!
I don't want to bore you all with "my story". But I want to share it with you to let you know there is a lot of happiness in aviation out there other than just flying planes. First, though, My story so you understand:
I graduated from UND in 1996. Took my 1st CFI job making $16,000 a year. All after earning a 4-year degree and certificates. After 6 months, I decided to CFI elsewhere, hoping for more money. Moved to a new location only to make $16,000 a year after being told I would have more students. So I supplemented my income with credit cards. Built up a debt of $6000.00. Got a job at Home Depot to supplement my CFI income and to pay off my debts. Worked 50 to 60 work weeks (including weekends). After 1 year earned my 1st part 135 job flying air freight. Starting pay was $14,500 a year - to fly/manage a C402B at an outstation base. Working hours were 8pm to 2am, break, and 5am to 6am. 4 days a week. Did this for 6 months flying through thunderstorms, moderate icing, and in 1970's equipment with nightly equipment failures (I'm not complaining....just telling you how it was...and I wouldn't take back the experience...it was all worth it....glad I did it for those who want to start bashing me....this is the reality of the career building process). Landed my first break with Co-Ex flying ATR-42's/72's in the late 1990's. Launched off to Houston for training. Starting pay at the time was about $17,000 a year, right seat, flying 48 and 68 passenger prop's around the southern states. Slept in a crashpad - 2 bedroom apartment, shared with 5 other pilots. A couch, 13 inch TV with rabbit ears, and air mattresses scattered throughout. Did this for 1 year (11 months). Heard about a Part 135 charter job in the Midwest from a buddy. Decided to "take a step back" in order to make-a-living. It was an instant $12,000 a year pay increase. Flew twin Cessna's around the Midwest for 2 years at $29,000 a year......(after 8 years, finally broke the $20,000 a year mark). I was very happy. No I wasn't doing what I wanted for "my aviation dream", but I was home nearly every night in my own bed. Bought my 1st house and saw my wife nearly every day who miraculously had stayed with me during all this time (since I left UND). Then the day hit we all dread to hear - 9/11. Three of us were let go from the 135 outfit within the next 6 months. I sent resumes out for the next 6 months with no avail. I was depressed. Took a job working for a local electronics company as an assembler. Starting pay was $30,000 a year, full 401k match, ESOP plan, 3 weeks vacation starting out, 4 day work weeks (day shift). I did this for the next three years. But I became depressed like most of you would - I fully understand the "love of aviation." All I could do was dream about flying planes as I snapped computer parts together. I began to explore "Other" jobs in aviaiton. Doing internet searches I found a ton of non-flying aviation jobs that paid good money.
There are tons of non-flying opportunities for Pilots out there in aviation, with good pay. NOBODY should be complaining about the aviation industry. You just need to seek it out a bit. For example - Cirrus Design in Duluth, all kinds of jobs. Also, there are nearly 25 VLJ (very light jet) manufacturers that are firing-up assembly lines looking for business professionals in Marketing, Finance, Demo-Pilots, Test Pilots, Contract Administration, etc. that all pay in excess of $30K a year starting (usually with full benefits too). Then there are companies like Honeywell, Allied Signal, Rockwell Collins, Boeing, Cessna, Gulfstream, Bombardier, etc. They are all looking for people with aviation backgrounds. I landed a job with one of the above last year. I have been told by my co-workers countless times how lucky I am to have previous aviation experience as a Pilot. They look up to me for my advice, and techncial perspective on a regular basis. It couldn't be more satisfying knowing the 'crappy' 10 years I had as a Pilot are now truely paying off in a professional career.
And what about the flying?? Well my company has a flying club (and most of the above do if you look into it). I have the choice to fly three aircraft at my discretion at reduced rental rates. My wife and I fly TOGETHER at least on a weekly basis now. Out to eat at fancy restaurants, we go to concerts in large cities, and visit friends and family scattered all over the country. I am working a career that I love - AVIATION. My pay is in excess of $50K (Starting Sal.). I live in a home much larger than I ever dreamed. I get to log 3 or 4 hours a flight time a week on my own time. My wife doesn't have to work full-time anymore. She gets to see me everyday.
So don't be let down by Pilot Pay! Get out there and search a bit. There are tons of gratifying jobs in aviation where you can be "around airplanes" all day long and be paid good money for your "background".
If you need more help - PM me and I will assist you with all kinds of resources. Life couldn't be better right now......and I know my company is looking for 7,000 additional workers over the next 3 years. Good luck and FLY SAFE!
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