Flying from the right seat

[XTW]

Tell him to go kiss a monkey's butt.

Hey, hey, how'd I get dragged into this?



X


PS I hope he's at least cute!:nuts:

 

[PHX767]

Does the plane in question have nose wheel steering through the rudder pedals? All the airliners I flew had that, so when the CA let go of the tiller I had positive steering. Many of them would give control to me on the line up coming around the corner ... "Okay - your throttles and brakes.... (and when just about lined up) your steering - your airplane!"

On our Beechjet, I know guys that do not want to fly from the right seat because the other guy would have trouble getting the speed brake switch in an abort situation. I don't really care, myself. I'm comfy in the right seat - but then I have a bunch of copilot time with the airlines in the right seat.

With my present employer, we just swap seats for the leg/day whatever. The only difference is I am a Co Captain, and when the boss flies our other plane I am the PIC with a contract pilot.

Outside of that it's an ego thing.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

consideration should be given to how the a/c is steered on the ground..

also, a company should have very clear SOPs on right seat ops, including abort procedures.

we also get right seat qualifed each simulator recurrent.

no big deal.

 

[Diesel]

I personally like staying in whatever seat it is. Moving back and forth means i have to move all my crap over and I like to make a little nest. You want me to fly from the right seat sure no problem. I'll even do it from the lav. Just lets switch legs back and forth and let me keep my seat just perfect the way it is.

 

[rice]

I personally like staying in whatever seat it is. Moving back and forth means i have to move all my crap over and I like to make a little nest. You want me to fly from the right seat sure no problem. I'll even do it from the lav. Just lets switch legs back and forth and let me keep my seat just perfect the way it is.

D,
You gotta be the easiest going guy on this board!!!! Well maybe the second (after G200). In my op we swap each and every leg but IMO it really doesn't matter, in fact I wouldn't mind getting a few right seat T/O's and landings just for the helluvit once in a while. Doing the one at FSI evry six months really doesn't cut it for me.:beer:

 

[Say Again Over]

consideration should be given to how the a/c is steered on the ground

What does the nose wheel steering have to do with flying, in my experience, NWS is for taxiing?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

What does the nose wheel steering have to do with flying, in my experience, NWS is for taxiing?

well, if I was flying with a new guy and it was icy and a 30+kt crosswinds I might want it avaliable quicker than he would get to it. On the planes we fly the tiller gives you much more steering than the pedals.

thats the only reason I said "consider" where the steering is...and choose the legs you fly appropriatly with a brand new guy.

and yes, Im with Diesel...if you fly witht the same guy all the time, forget switching legs maybe...just switch days...I carry way too much $hit in the cockpit to be changing my nest every leg. Unless of course, your specialty is 13 hr legs every other day...

 

[irapilot]

I think this accident report is worth looking at in regards to this issue. It is not about the seat per se, it is about the SOPs, procedures, and the CRM issues tend to be more important than the seat.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X06863&ntsbno=CHI97MA017& akey=1

I have always made sure a co-pilot has had time enough in the aircraft before swapping seats, depending on their experience. I would have an adverse reaction to this "unsafe" issue, sounds like others that chimed in were on the right track about poor attitude - maybe it is ego or just poor flying skills.

 

[AA717driver]

In my past life we always got a takeoff briefing like this: "I'll steer prior to 60 knots. At that point, I'll say "your steering". You respond "I've got it". On landing you maintain directional control to approximately 60 kts. when I will say "I've got it". At that point, you will take your feet off the rudders and say "your aircraft".

And if he doesn't, you slap the $h!t outta him! TC

 

[Say Again Over]

well, if I was flying with a new guy and it was icy and a 30+kt crosswinds by Gulfstream

I'm a line check airman and would be shot if I was training in those conditions. My advice is never do something you can't defend in a court of law, just my opinion.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm a line check airman and would be shot if I was training in those conditions. My advice is never do something you can't defend in a court of law, just my opinion.

right on...thats why I would be in the left seat with the steering on that leg with a brand new guy...

It always surprises me when someone BRAND NEW to an aircraft gets offended by having to show a few hours in the right seat...says a lot about a guy IMHO. (like that he's an unpredictable a$$hat who does not know his limits)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

And if he doesn't, you slap the $h!t outta him! TC

I always find the "slap the $hit outta him" is always more effective day one on the hangar floor, before any flying whatsoever takes place. Part of the preflight /trip briefing

Its the true definition of effective CRM -- FEAR.

 

[Check 6]

We hired a Lear captain in Europe back in 2001 to fill a vacancy. He was hired stateside so we did not have any input into his hiring. I assigned him to fly with me on a flight from Italy to Spain and return. This was to be an in-theater orientation flight but with pax.

I took the first leg as I wanted him to get some experience navigating and "communicating" in that challenging environment. For those of you who fly outside the U.S. you know what I mean.

Now keep in mind he is brand new with the company and has never flown in Europe before. We get airborne and he tells me that he does not care if he takes the next leg, but he will not fly from the right seat, only the left seat.

No problem, with that cocky attitude he did not get to fly the second leg. He lasted about six months.

 

[Mercury]

FWIW- Our SOP states that a new hire will complete "an initial course of training at an approved school". Doesnt specify if it will lead to a type or not. That is at the discretion of the CP. Once the new hire returns from FSI, its a minimum of 50 hrs in the right seat and can fly dead legs only. After that, and a performance review, the new hire can begin flying from the left seat and w/pax at the discretion of the trip captain.
As stated earlier it depends on a lot of variables: Does the guy have previous jet time, how well does he do his job as an FO, attitude, comfort level in the a/c, wx and runway conditions.
Guess there really is not silver bullet to cover all scenarios, just do what works for your and your dept. and keep it safe!!!

 

[Say Again Over]

If your hiring a captain, why are you training him in the right seat, doesn't make too much sense to me. When I do training on a transitioning captain, he will be in the left seat. NWS is not a factor.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If your hiring a captain, why are you training him in the right seat, doesn't make too much sense to me. When I do training on a transitioning captain, he will be in the left seat. NWS is not a factor.

no?

will that "Captain" ever fly with newer left seat guys and need to be proficient in the right seat?

All Captains should be training Captains and be able to operate from either side. Guys who never do it become those scared old Captains who cant effectivly train young guys.

Leave the left seat ego at the door in corporate, thanks!

PS - I like your "current position".....

 

[AA717driver]

Unless you don't swap seats (rare in corporate apparently) BOTH crewmembers need to be proficient in BOTH seats. Anything less is a hazzard.TC

 

[Diesel]

Actually in a couple of the planes I've flown I've raced to get to the right seat. I've even been in the left seat and convinced the guy he left the chalks in and swapped seats while he was checking. Damn that was funny.

See there usually is more room in the right seat width wise. No tiller, or trim wheel stuff like that.

If you do any contract flying you better be damn comfortable with the right seat and even more comfortable with not even touching the plane. It's their show and I just go with the flow. Coffee, catering, ice, papers Yes SIR!

But I have a big shoes so i'm comfortable with my manhood. As g200 can attest to while he was in prison.

 

[banned username 2]

But I have a big shoes so i'm comfortable with my manhood. As g200 can attest to while he was in prison.

Weeeellllll, so THAT'S how it is out east... I guess if someone asks G200 "Who's your Daddy?" He can confidently answer "Diesel!"

 

[Brett Hull]

FWIW- Our SOP states that a new hire will complete "an initial course of training at an approved school". Doesnt specify if it will lead to a type or not. That is at the discretion of the CP. Once the new hire returns from FSI, its a minimum of 50 hrs in the right seat and can fly dead legs only. After that, and a performance review, the new hire can begin flying from the left seat and w/pax at the discretion of the trip captain.

If I may ask, and I commend your company for sending all new hires to sim training (that's the way it should be), what is the point of hiring a pilot who can't be trusted to fly the airplane with pax for the first for 50 hours?

When we look for a pilot, we're looking for someone who can fly every other leg from day one - and our CEO's such a bad flyer that she's been known to curl up in the fetal position on the divan on bumpy days.