Flying from the right seat

[GIVSP]

Gents, Could I please have some input as to the way you operate with new pilots in your operation. Do you type them right away, and put them in the left seat, or do you make them fly from the right seat. We have a new hire who thinks flying from the right seat is unsafe. Im not saying either way is right or wrong, just trying to get some input as to what other operators do.

 

[Papps]

If your an F/O in an airline you fly from the right seat every other leg.

 

[Check 6]

For a new hire to say "flying from the right seat is unsafe" is making a self-serving statement at the least, and is very immature at the worst.

What is unsafe about it? What is unsafe is putting a pilot inexperienced in that airframe in the left seat, where some of the switches are located that are not accessible from the right seat.

 

[GIVSP]

Check 6, He feels that the transfer of control on takeoff is the problem, from nose wheel steering to him on the rudders. I was brought up flying the right seat for many years and I always new who had control of the airplane. Again I am not saying he is wrong and we are right, just trying to get feed back on the safe thing to do. Thanks

 

[Check 6]

GIVSP, I certainly understand your position. The airlines have been doing this for years with aircraft with the tiller on the left side, and doing it safely, for millions of flight hours.

Many operations have a "left seat" program where a designated FO can fly from the left seat. We had one at my previous employer. The FO had to be recommended by the Base Supervisor and have more than 250 hours in the airframe WITH our company.

This certainly can vary. If your flight department does not have a "left seat" policy maybe now is the time to come up with one.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Well then, every 121 airline in the US is doing it wrong! FOs fly every other leg from the right seat and stay in the right seat until they upgrade. Very few planes have tillers on the right and regardless of which seat you are in rolling down the runway accelerating is no place to be on the tiller anyway!

I understand that in the corporate world there is a lot of seat swapping and that is fine if that is the custom, but shouldn't your newbie be able to take control at anytime, say if you became incapaticipated after throttling up?

See how silly this sounds:

Gee, sorry boss, but I couldn't save the situation when Fred keeled over, as he was in the left seat when it happened. Sorry about your $50M jet but it wouldn't have happened if I was in the left seat. I just don't know how to fly from the right.

 

[Slice121]

Sounds like the newbie wants a free type! I would keep him in the right seat (type-less) long enough to see if his skills and attitude warrant your company's investment to type him. Saying that flying from the right seat is unsafe is ridiculous. If he's worried about xfer of controls on the ground there's an easy solution. Have the Capt do all takeoff's and landings! If you mention that, I'll bet he'll shut his yap for a while...

 

[DrProc]

I remember a story about an FO flying from the left seat. Wasn't very safe. In fact they had to switch seats back so the captain could make an off airport landing in Kirksville. Stick him in the right seat until his attitude changes.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I agree with slice121. Beware of a type & run. Hell, I'm a suddenly unemployed (IDE went under) bus captain that would say "thanks boss" if you gave me time in the right seat of your G4SP.

I do complement you on asking opinions however. It appears you get it that safety is always #1. If directional control is in question, don't give up the controls. That fixes his concerns easy enough!

 

[gear_guy]

If it's part 91, giving him a type should be standard. The last 2 operators I worked for let me fly from the left seat as F/O. What's the big deal?

If it's his attitude that's a problem, deal with that seperately. Don't try to punish him in the cockpit. I can tell you that it will only lead to more problems.

 

[Doug Parker]

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Tell that prima donna little faggot that one must learn to be a good First Officer before one can progress to become a good Captain.









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[Gulfstream 200]

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Tell that prima donna little faggot that one must learn to be a good First Officer before one can progress to become a good Captain.




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AWWRIGHT!

its about time someone ditched the PC BS around here!

whats wrong with flying in the right seat?

 

[gear_guy]

AWWRIGHT!

its about time someone ditched the PC BS around here!

whats wrong with flying in the right seat?

I was always told never to answer a question with a question.

However, what's wrong with trading seats?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If it's part 91, giving him a type should be standard. The last 2 operators I worked for let me fly from the left seat as F/O. What's the big deal?

If it's his attitude that's a problem, deal with that seperately. Don't try to punish him in the cockpit. I can tell you that it will only lead to more problems.

I dunno...

If his attitudes the problem I wouldnt give him a type, any flying time, etc...

heck, I would be tempted to ditch him all together.

Give me a break, a freakin' chimp can fly these airplanes, its ALL about attiude.

At our operation, if you are competent new guy (as determined by the group) you can fly left seat within approx 25-50hrs (everyone is typed) - but there is nothing unsafe about right seat flying. Only people I have known to say this tend to be guys who are afraid of a new guy flying - guys who have no instructor background (civ or mil) and are afraid some new guy is going to botch up something they cant fix in time.

In other words, rather rediculous.


but again, to me, a bad attitude gets nothing and eventually goes away...in the form of a better attitude or another job.

 

[Doug Parker]

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Not a dam thing wrong with trading seats - but one should demonstrate their ability from the right seat first - not just expect to jump into the left seat right away.

Besides - FS and SF will dam near give any jackoff a type rating - having the rating don't mean dick. The proof is shown flying the line.

And, if it is an airline guy that has never flown corporate or charter before - you should definately make them learn what their real job is right away - PIC CB



PAPER
ICE
COFFEE

CLEARANCE
BAGGAGE





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[Rick1128]

If he is in a G4 he should know that he has much better control of the aircraft from the right seat that I ever did in a SD3-30 or an Twin Otter. He needs to grow up.

Our company policy is that a FO flying his legs from the right seat. The only exceptions are PIC qualified FO's (in other words, two captains flying together) or a FO that is in the process of up grading while flying with a qualified company instructor or check airman(at the Instructor's or Check Airman's sufferage) As for typing a FO, it depends. We really like to fly with him/her a bit before we invest that kind of money. Some people interview real well then you find out that they can't play well with others.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I was always told never to answer a question with a question.

However, what's wrong with trading seats?

nothing.

Only time it would be an issue IMHO is if money was involved.

but like I said, bad attiude? sit there and do $hit until it changes.

 

[h25b]

I say it depends on the individual new hire..

For me, I haven't flown in the right seat in about 6 years. All of the corporate operations I worked for we just swapped seats, but then again, none of them were hiring inexperienced pilots either. If you're bringing in someone with low or no jet experience along with no left seat time I'd put them in the right seat since that's probably where they are more comfortable in the first place. I certainly wouldn't put someone like myself in the right seat.

I would actually say that I need to start flying from the right seat on occassion and everyone should maintain proficiency from both seats... Sounds like the guy might have an attitude problem though. But I'd solve that outside the cockpit.

 

[CapnVegetto]

There's nothing in the world wrong with flying from the right seat.....every single airline in the country does it. When I hired our copilot, I wanted to type him right away, but he was about 50 hours short of ATP mins and had no written, and we all know you can wipe your butt with a commercial type rating but that's about it. Insurance said he had to have school before he could touch the thing, so we sent him to an SIC initial at Simuflite, and we're gonna type him at recurrent next year. No contract. If you treat your pilots well, you don't need a contract.

Right now, there are only 2 pilots, (him and I), and he flies every other leg from the right seat. Once he gets some time in the airplane, figures out that it's not a piston single, and learns how to be a good FO, then we'll be swapping seats. He flies left seat anyway on empty legs, but there aren't many of them at all.

Point is, the guy that's complaining to you is a ******************************nut. Tell him to quit his bitchin and pull the dam-n gear. I've never flown a Gulfstream, and I sure wouldn't mind pulling gear in the thing for a while before flying, especially with the boss on board. You gotta learn how to fly the right seat before you can fly the left. Tell him to go kiss a monkey's butt.

 

[GIVSP]

Gents, Thanks for all the great input. We hired this guy because he did infact have jet time. We sent him to F2000 school and gave him a type. He was hired as a CO-PILOT. This has been the way we do things forever. We keep them in the right seat for about 100 hrs then start to move them over. Out of the 25 or so pilots that have come through this place, we never had a problem. What he has done is, delayed his time to the left seat. Anyway, thanks again for the great info.