Flying as a Senior Officer

[hoover]

Do senior officers in the military (Colonel, General, etc) still get to do some flying? Or are their flying days done once they get to that rank?

 

[Deuce130]

Do senior officers in the military (Colonel, General, etc) still get to do some flying? Or are their flying days done once they get to that rank?

Many of them still fly, depending on their job. Some still have it, some don't. They've always got IP supervision, though. How about in the fighter community? I flew Gen Holland about 4 times or so, and he's a great stick and fun to talk to. I flew a combat sortie with an 0-6 WG/CC type, did some good things and some bad. Flew with an AFSOC BG in Hawaii who was really good, too. They typically only fly enough to keep their pay flowing in and maintain that "street cred."

 

[stonewall]

All OGs and WG/CCs still fly in the fighter world. Some are better and more "up to date" than others. Most of them have tons of experience to fall back on, and that usually makes up for their lack of currency. It really ain't there fault. Everyone should follow a Wing Commander around for a day...they're pretty busy dudes.

That said, it's highly respected and appreciated when an O-6 comes down to the squadron to fly and is prepared, motivated, and at least acts like he's interested in what I have to say. Leave the cell phone and Blackberry at the door.

 

[sardaddy]

It depends on the service.

In the Army, you might see an O-5 jump in the cockpit on occasion but they are pretty much done flying operationally when they make O-4. They still fly if they can get assigned back to an aviation unit but not normally in a battle rostered position. they leave that to the warrant officers and junior officers

In the Coast Guard, O-5's often stand duty as the Aircraft Commander and fly regularly. O-6's usually maintain their Aircraft Commander designations. As the Air Station Commanding Officer they are usually pretty busy but they still go out and fly when they can. About once or twice a week. No IP or seasoned pilot required. Some have even pulled ready duty when the airstation was in a pinch for pilots.

 

[dtfl]

Many of them still fly, depending on their job. Some still have it, some don't. They've always got IP supervision, though. How about in the fighter community? I flew Gen Holland about 4 times or so, and he's a great stick and fun to talk to. I flew a combat sortie with an 0-6 WG/CC type, did some good things and some bad. Flew with an AFSOC BG in Hawaii who was really good, too. They typically only fly enough to keep their pay flowing in and maintain that "street cred."

amen - I flew Gen Holland myself...that man could land the aircraft like it was on a marshmallow runway. I was impressed. Flew with him as Col Holland and en Holland...same skillz.
Now...flying with Helo guys in the herc....errrrr...

 

[tomgoodman]

Anywhere he wants to

LtGen Tom Stafford, (astronaut and former AFFTC commander), then Deputy Chief of Staff for R&D, flew an F-16 test mission plus a few touch-and go landings on a return visit to Edwards once in the late '70s. He was unusually well qualified, and as the Wing Commander remarked: "Where does a 500 pound gorilla sit?"

 

[HarryShadow]

I did the C-21 gig for a few years and got to fly more Generals than I care to mention. Gen Robertson, Gen Jumper, and Gen Myers…three of the best!!! Granted, it’s a simple plane to fly with a very uncomplicated mission, but there were plenty of Senior Officer’s (with fighter and heavy backgrounds) who lacked some serious skill!!!

Now flying in AFSOC, I get stuck with the washed up Col/Gen who thinks it’s a good idea to fly in theater. BAD IDEA!!! I told one Col during our mission brief I thought it was bad idea for him to fly…he said “well that’s why I have an instructor with me!” “Sir, I don’t want to have to instruct when I have a qualified co-pilot who should be flying!” (I still took him so no one else had to.) That same mission, I had to take the controls during an “engagement”…it turned out to be nothing, but this dude didn’t even react when directed by a scanner! And yes, I told him “I told you so” during debrief. He never flew with us again!!!

As long as the dude has the skills, and can still bring some leadership to the cockpit, then rock on!!! I’d probably want to fly if I ever made it to their level…who can blame ‘em??

 

[stonewall]

In theater brings up another point...these guys could be shot down. Col Dave Eberly was shot down in GWI while flying an F-15E. I think he was the Wing CC at the time. A Wing CC O-6 POW is much more valuable than my pink a**. It's hard to tell those guys they shouldn't fly into combat (contrary to what many on this board think, there are a LOT of senior O's who actually WANT to lead people into combat), but there are some things to think about other than their personal desires.

 

[HarryShadow]

In theater brings up another point...these guys could be shot down. Col Dave Eberly was shot down in GWI while flying an F-15E. I think he was the Wing CC at the time. A Wing CC O-6 POW is much more valuable than my pink a**. It's hard to tell those guys they shouldn't fly into combat (contrary to what many on this board think, there are a LOT of senior O's who actually WANT to lead people into combat), but there are some things to think about other than their personal desires.

That’s a valid point about wanting to “lead” their folks into combat and I would want to do the same thing if I were in their shoes. But (and in agreement with Magnum’s tone) the best decision a commander can make is to evaluate the skills, experience, and proficiency of his troops, including himself, then make the decision on who’s best fit for which missions. I had an old commander who used to say “don’t mistake enthusiasm with capability!”…this has always been in the back of my mind kind of as a personal cross-check!!!

During the early days of combat aviation, a flight cc, squad cc, and even wing cc were positions designed to translate into airborne formations. It may be the same today in the fighter community, but not in my community! The higher you climb the less proficient you become and the less you belong on the front lines of combat…let alone leading the way.

I know I know…there are always exceptions!

 

[Huggyu2]

During the war 3 years ago, the PSAB OG was Col Brett "ET" Williams. He briefed and led a whole bunch of the Southern Watch missions, involving 35-40 aircraft. Impressive to work with. Patch wearer that knew his stuff. I heard he's the F-15 Wing CC at Eglin now, and made his first star. I'll bet he still flies and sets the example to his younger pilots.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
In the Navy the CAG if he is an Aviator vs. an NFO (Carrier Air Wing Commander) is an O-6 and will be day carrier qualified in one type of airplane, plus night carrier qual'd on usually only one time. The CAG will have also completed an abbreviated syllabus on all the types in the Air Wing, so he can not only be familiar with the platform's capabilities, but also liason directly with the crews in the different squadrons. There are only a couple of Flag officer billets that are "duty in involving flying". One that comes to mind is the NSAWC commander.
My Dad retired as an O-5 in the Air Force and flew combat in Viet Nam as an O-5 with many "retreads". Fighter jocks that were put into Tactical Airlift Squadrons. In fact one of them was awarded the Medal of Honor flying a C-123, which is whay my Dad also flew there.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[COD God]

Hoover -

Judging by your profile....sounds like your contemplating some things. Lots of experienced folks here to help answer your questions.

Me, I'm (very) recently retired from the Navy, flew the C-2 Greyhound at VRC-30, San Diego. We're the "rubber dog-shXX out of Hong-Kong" guys. We fly parts/mail/personnel on and off aircraft carriers wherever they're deployed.

My experience has been:

1) to corroborate what the rescue swimmer said: CAG's love to come fly with every bird in the wing. In the old days, the wings were complex with A4's, A6's, A7's, F14's and so much more. Now it's simpler, cuz they're all F18s. (The "pointy nose mafia" has taken over the fleet)

2) Driving the COD, I've flown many a star (and a bazillion O6's, O5's and their wives) on and off the boat. They usually chill in the back...but on occasion will ask to come up front. We train for this eventuality - discussing it at length in pilot upgrade boards..."what if...." stuff. We never let the DV (Distinguished Visitor) fly the aircraft during "critical phases of flight" (takeoffs and landings - even ashore) - and I know of no-one who's ever had a DV challenge this policy. There isn't a senior officer out there who will challenge you when you say something to the effect of "the safest course of action is....XXX"

I retired as an O-4 (did some Enlisted time up front) and was up for promotion to O5 when I "quit" //slash// retired. I did so for family reasons (got a 5 year old and a 6 year old). BUT...not lost on my mind were the following considerations:

- next "competitive" assignment as an O5 would be a desk//staff job - very limited (if any) flying. They were screaming at me to take "joint duty" (meaning go to the AF or Army and work with them). Almost zero flight opportunities for someone from my community in that case.

- I.A. - "Individual Augmentation" - the CNO (Chief of Naval Operations) has stated that EVERY sailor in the navy will spend one year in Iraq/Afghanistan in the next several years. (i.e. not flying duty!!)

- beyond that - there's a CHANCE of making command//Skipper of a COD squadron - which IS duty involving flying. BUT....as was mentioned earlier in this post - your responsibilities outside the cockpit preclude you having time (or wanting to take the time) to fly. You will fly - but seldom - and you will rely upon your 4,000 or so flight hours to be able to "keep up" with the "kids". (yeah: take note: you'll be lucky to get 4,000 hours in 17 years with the military...in the COD community anyway...)

- Note: This is the stuff that happens at about year 16 or 17 of a typical Officer's career in my community.

Speaking of community - this is probably the most important concept to grasp if you are contemplating military flying. You just don't hop around communities in the military flying world. The Officers who make it to the top (The Senior guys you asked about) get there because they are successful and make a name for themselves (stand out) in a single community - they develop networks/reputation which gives momentum to their career. In the Navy, the F-18 community is the breeding ground for most all the big wigs/CAGs.

"choose your rate, choose your fate" is a famous navy moniker. Same applies for moving up in the aviation world. Go online and search out senior officer biographies and look back at what they did to get where they are. That will tell you a lot about where you could be if you're ambitious, intelligent and successful (and most importantly: dont' screw the pooch!! hah!).

Hope that helps. Sorry so long winded. I'm currently un-employed and have TOO much time on my hands. I'm waiting for that call (from Trump): "you're hired!"

COD God