Flying a Caravan for Turbine PIC

[TexasPilot]

What does anyone know about single engine pic time in a caravan? I am thinking about leaving Eagle after 4.5 years. With an LOA of course. What does anyone know about caravan time leading to a decent career job? My friends at Southwest are begging me to do this...

 

[IslandDriver]

F-16 is a single engine.....there sure are a lot of ex F-16's at SWA!

 

[propilot]

DON'T DO IT! If you're going to leave, leave for another Multi-turbine job. Caravan PIC will get you nowhere... Southwest may allow it, but no one else does... You'd be severely limiting yourself...

 

[BIGGOAT]

Go for it! What good will more 121 SIC time do for you?

Goat

 

[JustaNumber]

Most airlines want 121 PIC. The idea is they want to see crew command skill. I would view it as a step backwards.

 

[GLEXPilot]

You thinkin corporate or bigger 121. If corporate it will help you. If bigger 121 I think they would rather see you coming from a current 121 gig then flying around single engine part 91.

 

[pilotyip]

Any PIC is better than SIC while in the job hunt, especially if you don't have much PIC. It will take you approximately 10 years, of course with what is being called the "lost decade" it may take longer. However the hiring boom is coming it will allow you to get to a job that will allow you to start making QOL a goal in your job search.

Pilots get hired at good places because they have Turbine PIC, you must build turbine PIC to have control over your career. You have to go wherever that job is that gets you turbine PIC. You stay in that job until you can get another job that gives you better turbine PIC, i.e. Bigger airplanes, Turbojet, 121, etc. It is called paying your dues everyone must do it. Some do it in the military, some do it at the regionals, and some do in the on-demand business. Everyone pays his or her dues.

 

[ackattacker]

IMHO at this stage of your career Caravan time is a huge step backwards. It checks a box on an application but will leave most interviewers scratching their heads, and trying to figure out what went wrong at Eagle that you had to leave to go hang out with a bunch of 500 hour wonderkids flying XL Cessna 172s.

You should be looking for something that will give you PIC in a multi-engine turbine with a crew. King Air or better, or stay where you are.

 

[paid4training]

I just helped one of my students and a business partner buy a king air f-90 yesterday. They want to send me to Sim Com for training, is there other options? I expected about 250-500 hours a year flight time in the f-90, I really lucked out on this one!!!

 

[pilotyip]

IMHO at this stage of your career Caravan time is a huge step backwards. It checks a box on an application but will leave most interviewers scratching their heads, and trying to figure out what went wrong at Eagle that you had to leave to go hang out with a bunch of 500 hour wonderkids flying XL Cessna 172s.

You should be looking for something that will give you PIC in a multi-engine turbine with a crew. King Air or better, or stay where you are.

Bum gouge, as a hiring manager I would be much more impressed with the Caravan PIC than I would be with more RJ SIC. Having hired a few Caravan drivers, who now all have their choice in jobs, CA at Air Canada, Corp pilot at a Fortune 10 company and DC-9 Captain with JUS.

Too early to even make QOL a consideration in the next job. Go for the Caravan time to build resume fluff, you can always move when a better job comes along

 

[ackattacker]

Bum gouge, as a hiring manager I would be much more impressed with the Caravan PIC than I would be with more RJ SIC. Having hired a few Caravan drivers, who now all have their choice in jobs now, Ca at Air Canada, Fortune 10 comapny and DC-9 Captainn.

Too early to even make QOL a consideration in the next job.

No offense YIP, but you are not typical. And you are/were hiring for a night freight outfit which, not to put too fine a point on it, likes to hire misfits that aren't going anywhere else too soon. And if I was in the OP's shoes I wouldn't be looking for two more steps to a major, I'd be looking for one step.

 

[pilotyip]

No offense YIP, but you are not typical. And you are/were hiring for a night freight outfit which, not to put too fine a point on it, likes to hire misfits that aren't going anywhere else too soon. And if I was in the OP's shoes I wouldn't be looking for two more steps to a major, I'd be looking for one step.

You mean like the mis-fits who have come here, built time and moved on to DAL, NWA, SWA, FedEx, Atlas, UPS, AirTran, Jetblue, NJ, etc. Like the mis-fit who came here after going to one of the military academies, or came to us out of military flight training, or had been furloughed by a major. Those kind of misfits?

These guys are still my friends, we stay in touch, get together over lunch, and we enjoyed the time we spent together in the on-demand business. I think the world of them, and the small part I may have played in allowing them to get to the next level in their career.

 

[BrickTop]

Its a fun plane I would fly it! But might look as impressive as a tow truck at a Tractor pull.

 

[GLEXPilot]

I just helped one of my students and a business partner buy a king air f-90 yesterday. They want to send me to Sim Com for training, is there other options? I expected about 250-500 hours a year flight time in the f-90, I really lucked out on this one!!!

Whatever you do, do not go to sim com, horrible facility, there has to be other options.

 

[bailout]

Yeah, and its expensive to live in HI..

 

[rickair7777]

Single-engine TPIC in a viper or harrier = competitive
SE TPIC in a Van, Pilatus, etc = not so competitive...there are a lot of RJ guys with ME TPIC, glass cockpit, 121 experience.

Most major airlines will allow SE TPIC, but that's really only for the fighter guys. As always, exceptions will be made for those who are very well connected.

 

[pilotyip]

Single-engine TPIC in a viper or harrier = competitive
SE TPIC in a Van, Pilatus, etc = not so competitive...there are a lot of RJ guys with ME TPIC, glass cockpit, 121 experience.

Most major airlines will allow SE TPIC, but that's really only for the fighter guys. As always, exceptions will be made for those who are very well connected.

From TexasPilot What does anyone know about single engine pic time in a caravan? I am thinking about leaving Eagle after 4.5 years. With an LOA of course. What does anyone know about caravan time leading to a decent career job? My friends at Southwest are begging me to do this...

Back to the beginning, this pilot appears to have none of those things, he has no ME TPIC, so getting turbine PIC is a step in the right direction. He is not taking the Caravan job for the rest of his life, but only until he can get a better job to build his resume. Besides the fact being forced to fly as SE PIC, night IFR, icing etc. He will develope those skills that make him a better pilot. I would hire this guy in heartbeat over a pilot with 500 turbine ME PIC, dropping jumpers out a Otter in AZ.

He is making a mistake listening to the advice to bypass this job in order to build more SIC time.

 

[jws717]

Glass time is the new thing interview boards are looking at. (ease of training) The caravan is a dead end.

 

[pilotyip]

Glass time is the new thing interview boards are looking at. (ease of training) The caravan is a dead end.

Have to disagree, PIC is still the premier resume fluff. I have seen too many people move from Caravan to places like SWA, Air Canada, and NJ, of course after passing through JUS.

 

[propilot]

There is absolutley no reason for a person with his expereince to go back and fly a Caravan at this point(unless he's being furloughed and looking for something to pass the time). He's been at the regionals for 4.5 years flying ATR's and RJ's. If he's willing to take a Caravan job, then he must be pretty desperate. He should easily be able to find something better and more career advancing. Yip, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but some times I think you live in a vacuum. Taking a Caravan job would do nothing but put this person a step backward in his career progression. It is not good advice... FWIW, if this is a SWA chasing thing, I worked with a guy who's father and Uncle are very senior Capts at SWA. He went the Caravan route, surpassed the 1000TPIC mark and then still ended up at another company to get ANOTHER 1000TPIC in a jet because the caravan was not competative at the time. There may be some guys/gals who make it work for them, but it is not the norm... The key to this career is finding the most direct route to your end goal, while having fun along the way. There will be plenty of chances in his career to go backwards...

 

[crxpilot]

I think the caravan is a good idea. You are gonna be on an LOA anyways so you still have your old job for later. Sounds like fun, enjoy!

 

[pilotyip]

There is absolutley no reason for a person with his expereince to go back and fly a Caravan at this point.................. ............. ................................... The key to this career is finding the most direct route to your end goal, while having fun along the way. There will be plenty of chances in his career to go backwards...

Agreed but as far as I know, he is not making the choice between ME PIC and SE PIC. He making a choice to get PIC, of which it appears he has little. It is a stepping stone and he should not by-pass it to continue getting more SIC time. He is not signing on for a career in teh Caravan, only a chance to build time that is more meaning ful than SIC time.

 

[paid4training]

How much tpic are the majors looking for? I will be flying an f-90 king air part 91, will this help my regional resume or any possible major airline chances?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Enjoy the journey I say, if you are always taking a job to meet the next milestone, you will never enjoy the flying that you are currently doing!

 

[Microclimates]

Hey, my .02 is a slightly different take on the same problem:

flying a Caravan (I did it for 2 years and it was a blast) = Part 135

Part 135 = waaaaay higher risks to your certificate, due to the nature of the operations, the fact that you don't have the support of Mx, dispatchers etc (in Part 135 the PIC is the ONLY person responsible for the airplane: if Mx misses an AD or does not document it accurately, YOU my friend are on the hook-- as opposed to checking that there is a signature on a Mx release that clears you from any responsibility)

This is without even adding to the mix the shady nature of many, many Part 134.5 operators... there are a few good ones and plenty bad ones.

I mention this because you really need to be aware of this extra risk, it completely changes the equation. This has nothing to do with safety of flight, I'm sure you are a sh!t hot pilot, it has to do with safety of career...

hope this helps...

As far as resume etc, is concerned, nothing is evaluated in a vacuum. If ALL you have is Caravan TPIC, and nothing else that is interesting, then you would prob not be very competitive. But if you have that on top of jet SIC with eagle, maybe some Crj700 time (foreign carriers like EK make a big deal out of >30 tonnes for some reason) and a story to go with your decision, I think it would be an asset.

good luck

 

[Jackie Moon]

What about leaving a regional to get heavy internationa time at a cargo airline as sic. Keep building pic above 1000 hours or try something new.

 

[pilotyip]

Hey, my .02 is a slightly different take on the same problem:

flying a Caravan (I did it for 2 years and it was a blast) = Part 135

Part 135 = waaaaay higher risks to your certificate, due to the nature of the operations, the fact that you don't have the support of Mx, dispatchers etc (in Part 135 the PIC is the ONLY person responsible for the airplane: if Mx misses an AD or does not document it accurately, YOU my friend are on the hook-- as opposed to checking that there is a signature on a Mx release that clears you from any responsibility)

This is without even adding to the mix the shady nature of many, many Part 134.5 operators... there are a few good ones and plenty bad ones.

I mention this because you really need to be aware of this extra risk, it completely changes the equation. This has nothing to do with safety of flight, I'm sure you are a sh!t hot pilot, it has to do with safety of career...

hope this helps...

As far as resume etc, is concerned, nothing is evaluated in a vacuum. If ALL you have is Caravan TPIC, and nothing else that is interesting, then you would prob not be very competitive. But if you have that on top of jet SIC with eagle, maybe some Crj700 time (foreign carriers like EK make a big deal out of >30 tonnes for some reason) and a story to go with your decision, I think it would be an asset.

good luck

good post, now let me ask this, are you a better pilot because of the time you spent as a PIC in the Caravan?

 

[Lynxman]

What about saying to hell with these airlines all together? Prolly a better plan than chasing that Major airline dream.

 

[Microclimates]

good post, now let me ask this, are you a better pilot because of the time you spent as a PIC in the Caravan?

Are you kidding? I'm the one who taught Chuck Y how to fly!

Honestly though, I wouldn't know. My Caravan experience was part of a standard progression (after flight instructing, before regionals). It was a ton of fun, it was sort of 'airline lite' since I was interacting with ticketing agents, maintenance, passengers and freight people. I made my mistakes and learned from them, and there was a lot of hand flying in weather (since the AP sucked in weather). I survived my mistakes which is overall exciting...

... but I don't know how much actual airmanship someone coming from a 121 job would gain by flying the mighty Van. but then again, we're not talking about flying skills, we are talking about PIC skills = decision skills, mission vs. safety vs company bull etc... that's the value intrinsic to PIC on the resume: who made the final call as to go or no go?

 

[BeeFCaKe]

I left Eagle after about 4 years to go fly 135 and try to get that PIC turbine box checked. It's a crap shoot, you have to enjoy what you're going to be doing / flying, and there is a lot more to the PC-12 job than just flying the PC-12. Pay, Benefits, time off, time away from home, etc, etc.

Although the only one that knows what's right for you is YOU, if you think you'll be happy at the PC-12 gig, give it a shot, you're going to be doing it for at least 2-3 years to get your 500 TPIC anyway. That'll also be the time you could have spent at xyz regional bidding a good schedule etc waiting for the upgrade.