FLYI or DELTA...Who is paying for the 328 leases?

[zeroline]

I was just wondering who is forking out all of the money for the 30 328's to sit around doing nothing at Myrtle Beach. Are Flyi and DAL still fighting over who has to pay, or has DAL assumed the costs.

I believe 328 leases are 12 years. If DAL is paying for them, I wonder if they will try to sell them to some other company or go froward with the Skyway deal.

 

[captjim]

Delta is paying for them. However if Delta were to Chapter 11, Flyi or ACA whould be responsible for the payments.

 

[Sinca3]

Skyway

DAL is currently paying the leases. If the declare then ACA must foot the bill. I suspect that the begining of the year you will hear of a new DCI carrier in the fold. Just waiting for INDY to unravel are dealt to not unravel.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

Pictures?

Has anyone seen any pictures of the 30 or so parked DOjets on AvCraft's ramp in South Carolina? Any on Airliners.net or elsewhere? I realize parked planes are quite a common sight in today's world but I just thought a picture of them all together might be kind of interesting.

 

[House_X]

I heard Delta hasn't forked over a dime. We just haven't heard anything from the creditors yet, so I don't think anyone's paying for the 328's. Nobody "officially" has come forward (on paper) from Delta or Indy to confirm who's paying for the 328's. We have two fleets sitting around we're not paying leases for, and we can't afford to pay for the airplanes we're flying now. Load factor at 52% and we're loosing money by the minute.

What a depressing holiday season....

 

[T-Gates]

Has anyone seen any pictures of the 30 or so parked DOjets on AvCraft's ramp in South Carolina? Any on Airliners.net or elsewhere? I realize parked planes are quite a common sight in today's world but I just thought a picture of them all together might be kind of interesting.

Actually with all of PSA's DoProps and ACA's DoJets, it's closer to 60 on the ramp. I have some shots at home, it really is a sight. I'll post a link if I ever get off the road and get home to post em'.

 

[michael707767]

I am biased, but I don't think Delta shoud pay a dime. ACA management knew that the code share with Delta would be terminated if they chose to operate the A-320. They did it anyway. How is that Delta's fault in any way?

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

I am biased, but I don't think Delta shoud pay a dime. ACA management knew that the code share with Delta would be terminated if they chose to operate the A-320. They did it anyway. How is that Delta's fault in any way?

Because supposedly Delta co-signed on the leases back in 1999 when ACA started flying the 328s. Probably the only way the bankers were going to sign off on the deal. Bankers probably didn't care if ACA had grander ambitions to fly 320s or 380s down the road. They only cared about making the deal (along with Dornier) and getting paid for the 328 leases.

And Delta signed on the bottom line...

HMM

 

[Indypilot]

I am biased, but I don't think Delta shoud pay a dime. ACA management knew that the code share with Delta would be terminated if they chose to operate the A-320. They did it anyway. How is that Delta's fault in any way?

Delta cancelled the agreement with independence without cause. The contract with Delta and indy specified that whoever cancelled without cause has to pay the leases. That's the way the contract was written. There was NO clause in the Delta-Indy contract that prohibited us from doing what we did.

The problem that arose for delta is that they would be in violation of their contract with the pilots had they not cancelled our contract. They decided that would be the better thing to do, and therefore cancelled our contract without cause, thereby taking the leases for the Do Jets.

There was nothing in our contract with delta that said we couldn't operate large airplanes. So our management might have know that delta would cancel the agreement to stay within the bounds of their pilot contract. The contract that prohibited large airplane flying was the delta-pilot contract.

So delta knew they were cancelling without cause, but it might be cheaper to do that than to deal with the grievance if they would have kept us on as DLC.

 

[dispatchguy]

Indy pilot, I bet DAL management will never make that mistake again - I wonder how much they pay a month on those non-flying leases?

 

[StaySeated]

I bet no one is paying the leases. I know for a fact that Delta had reflected $300 million in leases for 30 FRJ's in last year's SEC filing. That doesn't mean that they are currently paying anything. Indy definitely is not paying as they are not currently accountable for the aircraft. The reason I believe that DAL is not paying is that it is not unusual for a leaseholder to say "come take em" if the aircraft are not holding the current market value of the lease. Whomever holds the lease (creditor) can either reposess and hope to recoup the loss in the current market, agree to new terms with the lessee, or hold out and pray that DAL will become financially viable to pay the agreed upon rate. I personnally believe that option number two has already been agreed to with a third party taking over the leases at a large discount and you will see a number of the aircraft end up at Midwest Connect (not flying DCI). Midwest owns Midwest Connect and they are possibly the most frugal and most ignorant airline on the planet. They also have trained several dozen pilots to fly 328's that currently are not on property. If anyone is stupid enough to grow their "fleet" with a failed airframe for the right price it is Midwest. Just my opinion, hope every has a wonderful holiday.

 

[SYXDude]

...I personnally believe that option number two has already been agreed to with a third party taking over the leases at a large discount and you will see a number of the aircraft end up at Midwest Connect (not flying DCI). Midwest owns Midwest Connect and they are possibly the most frugal and most ignorant airline on the planet. They also have trained several dozen pilots to fly 328's that currently are not on property. If anyone is stupid enough to grow their "fleet" with a failed airframe for the right price it is Midwest. Just my opinion, hope every has a wonderful holiday.

It would be interesting to see if Midwest does get some 328's on their own (not through DCI) for Skyway. Supposedly, Tim H has said Midwest/Skyway will have a $12M operational loss this quarter and our unrestricted cash is about $96M. I didn't hear his comments firsthand so I don't know if what he said is true. We could use 10-15 more jets for Midwest Connect. Maybe get rid of some 1900's and start doing some feeds out of MCI.

Here's hoping for the best!

 

[vc10]

About $25 million per YEAR...

Indy pilot, I bet DAL management will never make that mistake again - I wonder how much they pay a month on those non-flying leases?

 

[greenpickle]

Comments like this really p!ss me off

...Midwest owns Midwest Connect and they are possibly the most frugal and most ignorant airline on the planet. They also have trained several dozen pilots to fly 328's that currently are not on property. If anyone is stupid enough to grow their "fleet" with a failed airframe for the right price it is Midwest. Just my opinion, hope every has a wonderful holiday.

Stay Seated, your wrong. Midconn is indeed frugal but actually they are very smart, in my opinion. Midconn has very successfully run the D328. It is an aircraft that works well with our system. If Midconn waits to get a great deal on an aircraft because of the current operator's issues, then so be it. It will also be flown with already trained pilots. Actually, I think they are trying to make lemonade out of lemons here.

I dont even know why i get pissed at comments like yours. If Midconn was doing absolutely nothing, you would probably be one of the first to start b!tchin that we arent aggressive enough. Stay seated, have a happy holiday. I know our 150+ surplus pilots will because they all have jobs, and paychecks, and Midconn is trying to get them something to do. Even it is in a "failed airframe".

GrumpyPickle

 

[j41driver]

I am biased, but I don't think Delta shoud pay a dime. ACA management knew that the code share with Delta would be terminated if they chose to operate the A-320. They did it anyway. How is that Delta's fault in any way?

Contract wording is everything I guess.