Fly past age 60, WHY?

[FoxHunter]

There a a lot of reasons to continue past age 60.

The obvious are the loss of a pension, but even with a solid pension there are other reasons to continue.

Mine are:

1) I like going to work, like the job.
2) I like working where I work.
3) I will have only 19 years credit at age 60 towards my max 25 years in my pension.
4) My health insurance cost me $80 a month now, $530 a month after retirement.
5) I keep my company paid life insurance.
6) When I retire I have to make a selection of how I receive my pension. The norm is a 50% Survivor Benefit. My wife will get 50% of my pension for her life if I die after retirement. This benefit reduces my pension by about 13%. If my wife dies the day after I retire, my pension is reduced for the rest of my life. If still working and the doctor tells me that I have 6 months to live I can retire and opt for the 100% survivor option so my wife will get 100% of my pension for life.

 

[Russ]

I imagine losing your retirement might be a good reason. Many folks who were on track to retire at 60 now have to find another job at 60 to make up for the loss. Too many ex wives might be another.

 

[semperfido]

willing, able and a desire....what other reasons does one need. it should be an individual's choice. not a gov't or union mandate. pass a physical and fly your a** off, if you like.

 

[twgordy]

I'm 30 and I plan to fly well past 60. Why? Because it's the best part-time job in the world!

 

[Nindiri]

If I do stay past 60, it will be mainly for reason #1, the enjoyment of flying. Even if I retire, I don't plan to quit flying.

 

[Spooky 1]

Off kilter just a little

I'm over 60 so I'm watching this from the sideleines, but I keep hearing about the physical aspects of this issue and started reflecting back on what I can recall regarding guys dropping dead prior to age 60. Most of these men were in their mid forties. Dropped dead from heart attacks, some while on duty, some while at the golf course. None of them were approaching the age of 60 when this happened and guess what, none of these deaths cause an accident. A tragic scene to be sure, but nothing tragic beyond their own deaths. The only case that I can recall that a death while on duty was a "possible" contributing factor in an accident where a Flying Tigers Constellation crashed during an approach to KBUR in about 1962. The Capt's heart was found to be damaged for the lack of a better discription. It did not help of course that the F/O who was flying had padded his log book significantly and thus undermind the whole accident investigation.

So if anyone can point to a factual incident or accident where a medical condition of a pilot over say the age of 55 was caused by a medical condition, please step up and show us all. BTW, the Captain in the FTL accident discribed in the above accident, was in his late forties as I recall.

 

[semperfido]

one of my buddys pulled a Quantas FO out of a pool he was doing laps in on a LAX ron about 10 yrs ago. He was about 37 and "dead as a door nail".

 

[mobie]

Over 60

As another pilot over 60 I have to admit things have changed for me. I have gone from a long time 121 job back to 135/91 and there were some "getting use to" things. I miss FANS, CPDL and advanced FMS/MCDU, but Pro Line 21(although very basic) is not that bad. I have been to Flight Safety on 2 new planes. I did not have to take an online course to learn how to get ice and coffee.

If 65 were an option would I have stayed? Not if there was a great 91 gig that I could have gone to.

My first flying lessons were from an 86 year old and he was still flying everyday.

Remember when the airlines would not consider anyone over 32? Rules have changed, just like my retirement.

Good luck to all.

See ya at 30W next week!!

Mobie

 

[Baby Cakes]

Earning 6 digits, getting lots of time off, staying away from the wife, hanging out with good people, having fun flying to a fun location, working in a 600mph office... I can see why someone would want to stay past 60!

 

[Clear&aMillion]

There a a lot of reasons to continue past age 60.

The obvious are the loss of a pension, but even with a solid pension there are other reasons to continue.

Mine are:

1) I like going to work, like the job.

But they don't like you.

2) I like working where I work.

See #1 above.

3) I will have only 19 years credit at age 60 towards my max 25 years in my pension.

And a pension from another company on top of that.

4) My health insurance cost me $80 a month now, $530 a month after retirement.

That's why the union that represents you is working so hard to reduce those premiums.

5) I keep my company paid life insurance.

When you die, you don't enjoy life insurance.

6) When I retire I have to make a selection of how I receive my pension. The norm is a 50% Survivor Benefit. My wife will get 50% of my pension for her life if I die after retirement. This benefit reduces my pension by about 13%. If my wife dies the day after I retire, my pension is reduced for the rest of my life. If still working and the doctor tells me that I have 6 months to live I can retire and opt for the 100% survivor option so my wife will get 100% of my pension for life.

Such a tough decision, but I can understand your angst. When faced with a decision of whether to stay in ALPA or leave, you left. Bad decision. Given your poor track record, you're understandably nervous.

 

[sandman2122]

All great points about the freeloading Foxhunter -

My question is: IF flying beyond age 60 isn't about safety then why does the F/O have to be less than 60??

 

[semperfido]

Earning 6 digits, getting lots of time off, staying away from the wife, hanging out with good people, having fun flying to a fun location, working in a 600mph office... I can see why someone would want to stay past 60!

LOL...exactly...my trips are paid vacations...usually fun

 

[FoxHunter]

But they don't like you.

See #1 above.

And a pension from another company on top of that.

That's why the union that represents you is working so hard to reduce those premiums.

When you die, you don't enjoy life insurance.

Such a tough decision, but I can understand your angst. When faced with a decision of whether to stay in ALPA or leave, you left. Bad decision. Given your poor track record, you're understandably nervous.

Hmm? A new member! Post #1. Do you serve on the MEC, or are you just one of the mindless followers? I admire your courage, not, but that is the way you little boys do business. At least Sandman2122 is just a follower and not responsible for his thoughts and actions.

If you don't like me, don't fly with me.

ALPA does not represent retired pilots, just ask the guys retired from UAL or DAL. ALPA is a weak ineffective union unable to protect pensions, working conditions, or wages. I case you have not noticed the current ALPA proposal is not close to what was expected after ALPA was voted in, but this is a subject for another thread.

 

[zonker]

I will retire at 55. That's my goal.

It's not only what you make, it's what you spend and what you save.

There are too many powerful people who want you to fly until you drop and then have nothing. I won't let them win.

For myself and my family.

 

[furloughed dude]

Why fly past 60?

1. I can't manage money worth a $hit.

2. I get absolutely no respect from anyone in my private life. I think I get some at my job, but really don't.

3. I have absolutely no life. I have to go to work for enjoyment.

4. I don't have a wife (ran her off), and if I do, we can't stand each other.

I can think of others. I won't have my 25 years when I retire either, but I save for retirement and don't want to work after 60. If you idiots think work is a vacation, you really have problems.

 

[skykid]

My question is: IF flying beyond age 60 isn't about safety then why does the F/O have to be less than 60??

Good question. I investigate aircraft accidents for one of my jobs. You would be amazed how many general aviation accidents involve pilots over 60. I don't have any doubt that over age 60 pilots account for more than their share of the total GA accidents.

Obviously age 60 is a somewhat arbitrary number - as would be 65 or 63. We have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[bman]

Why fly past 60?

1. I can't manage money worth a $hit.

2. I get absolutely no respect from anyone in my private life. I think I get some at my job, but really don't.

3. I have absolutely no life. I have to go to work for enjoyment.

4. I don't have a wife (ran her off), and if I do, we can't stand each other.

I can think of others. I won't have my 25 years when I retire either, but I save for retirement and don't want to work after 60. If you idiots think work is a vacation, you really have problems.

Amen

Cept for I'm betting you prob. got a little mil retirement commin ur way to augment things.

The funny thing about this is 10 years ago the people ringing the bell for this were probably not as concerned. Now the end is near, the pension is gone, and the saving never happened.

An awful lot of people under 40 in this biz never had the high salaries (or the opportunities to invest or save large portions of that) or the A/B funds promised. Now after many who are approaching 60 have benefited from the policy (ie advancement due to guys retiring) they want to further benefit. (Typical boomer me, me, me!)This rule has been in place since before you guys started. We were all hired with the knowledge that this was the case now its unfair?!

Why work past age 60? Because I failed to prepare for what I knew was comming, but was too short sighted to see.

Aviation isn't the only industry has age limits (look at many govn't jobs).

 

[lostplnetairman]

Amen
Aviation isn't the only industry has age limits (look at many govn't jobs).

Please tell? Which are they?

Just curious...

HR Diva

 

[furloughed dude]

Diva,

How bout ATC controllers? Do you want more?

The simple fact is that with age there is a degradation in performance. Is it 60? Is it 62? 65? 90?

You have to draw the line somewhere. We all know AMEs that give very easy physicals. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone 90 years old that could pass his class I physical.

The bottom line is that the old fogeys that didn't take care of their retirement now want more time to save for their retirement. They took full advantage of the age 60 policy throughout their career. Now they want to extend their careers because they couldn't take care of their retirement. Sorry, I am not too sympathetic to their cause when there are thousands of young guys with families that are on furlough. These guys should be ashamed of themselves....

 

[Tim47SIP]

Not the same!

How bout ATC controllers? Do you want more?

The simple fact is that with age there is a degradation in performance. Is it 60? Is it 62? 65? 90?

Furloughed, I know you are bitter about the whole thing, and I would be to if I were in your shoes. The difference between the Gov jobs age requirements and the 121 age requirements are two different things. The Gov mandates Law enforcement, ATC, Mil, etc because there is a guaranteed pension that is provided and absolute physical limits. Some of these don't pay into SS (Mil does) and will not get SS payments. As you know the airlines provided their own retirements (mistake) with no real guarantee of pensions for life. The original reason for the age requirement was based on no definitive data. After numerous years with this rule in place, we still have no definitive data. It has alway been nothing more than age discrimination and now individuals want it rescinded not because of medical issues, but personal needs. This rule wont effect me for another 15 years, and it will slow advancement down for a couple of years, but things will get back to normal very quickly.


My question is: IF flying beyond age 60 isn't about safety then why does the F/O have to be less than 60??

Because that is what the ICAO standard is. Our rules will mirror these standards.