FLOPS union and ME

[FR8DOG777]

The union at FLOPS can be compared to a tree. It started as a seed a little over a year ago. Today it is a juvenile tree, it has leaves and produces some shade. Eventually it will be in full bloom and bearing fruit for all to consume. Every once in a while someone comes by and takes a whack at this tree. They would rather cut it down instead of waiting for the fruit to come. This tree is stronger than most would think. It can withstand any storm of attacks thrown at it by those that don't welcome it in their yard.

There are some that claim that the union hasn't done anything for them. These words in my opinion come from selfish pilots that are not will to put in the effort to make FLOPS a better place. What the union has done for "Me" lately, has been more than I ever had before at FLOPS. First of all the union has negotiated representational rights for all pilots that find themselves heading to CGF for any possible disciplinary action. It wasn't too long ago pilots would be disciplined for not being a team player. Pilots would find themselves in jeopardy with FLOPS if they called off fatigue, wrote up planes in inconvenient places, or items that management didn't think needed to be addressed until the plane went in for maintenance, and also for not answering the phone for that 0300 wakeup call we all were getting. Another thing the union has done for "Me" is make my rest period exactly that, MY REST PERIOD. To me that is a big deal knowing that I am not on a short leash. Another thing that comes to mind that the union has done for me is democracy. I get to vote on the things that are important to me. We all have these things now that the union is here. These benefits and protections are for everyone, not just the union supporters but every FLOPS pilot.

If you don't like what you see the union doing, if you think you can do things better then become a member in good standing. Run for MEC. Get off the sidelines, sofa, or wherever you are and get involved. This union isn't going anywhere. If you don't like how things are being handled then step up to the plate and volunteer. There should be no reason why anyone that is a FLOPS pilot shouldn't be on at least one committee. It is only your career and livelihood at stake here.

Management thinks that they control this company, soon they will see that it is the pilots that make FLOPS, and have control. If you want a contract that is equivalent or better than your peers at the other fractionals then it will take effort by practically everyone. We are all in this together, we are all getting the same shaft. We all need to stand up shoulder to shoulder and let management know we mean business. I for one am ready to pick some of that fruit off the tree. I'm willing to bet even those that tried to cut the tree down will enjoy it too.

So what has the union done for you lately? You tell me. Ask that person you see in the mirror "What has the union done for me?" See what they tell you. If they say nothing, then it is your fault that management rapes us all.

GET INVOLVED IN YOUR UNION

 

[The Great One]

Amen brother
finally got my "new" pin !!!!!!!!

 

[gunfyter]

and also for not answering the phone for that 0300 wakeup call we all were getting. Another thing the union has done for "Me" is make my rest period exactly that, MY REST PERIOD. To me that is a big deal knowing that I am not on a short leash

FLOPS now obeys the FARs?

Anyone else?

 

[TurboHonda]

The union at FLOPS can be compared to a tree. It started as a seed a little over a year ago. Today it is a juvenile tree, it has leaves and produces some shade. Eventually it will be in full bloom and bearing fruit for all to consume. Every once in a while someone comes by and takes a whack at this tree. They would rather cut it down instead of waiting for the fruit to come. This tree is stronger than most would think. It can withstand any storm of attacks thrown at it by those that don't welcome it in their yard.

There are some that claim that the union hasn't done anything for them. These words in my opinion come from selfish pilots that are not will to put in the effort to make FLOPS a better place. What the union has done for "Me" lately, has been more than I ever had before at FLOPS. First of all the union has negotiated representational rights for all pilots that find themselves heading to CGF for any possible disciplinary action. It wasn't too long ago pilots would be disciplined for not being a team player. Pilots would find themselves in jeopardy with FLOPS if they called off fatigue, wrote up planes in inconvenient places, or items that management didn't think needed to be addressed until the plane went in for maintenance, and also for not answering the phone for that 0300 wakeup call we all were getting. Another thing the union has done for "Me" is make my rest period exactly that, MY REST PERIOD. To me that is a big deal knowing that I am not on a short leash. Another thing that comes to mind that the union has done for me is democracy. I get to vote on the things that are important to me. We all have these things now that the union is here. These benefits and protections are for everyone, not just the union supporters but every FLOPS pilot.

If you don't like what you see the union doing, if you think you can do things better then become a member in good standing. Run for MEC. Get off the sidelines, sofa, or wherever you are and get involved. This union isn't going anywhere. If you don't like how things are being handled then step up to the plate and volunteer. There should be no reason why anyone that is a FLOPS pilot shouldn't be on at least one committee. It is only your career and livelihood at stake here.

Management thinks that they control this company, soon they will see that it is the pilots that make FLOPS, and have control. If you want a contract that is equivalent or better than your peers at the other fractionals then it will take effort by practically everyone. We are all in this together, we are all getting the same shaft. We all need to stand up shoulder to shoulder and let management know we mean business. I for one am ready to pick some of that fruit off the tree. I'm willing to bet even those that tried to cut the tree down will enjoy it too.

So what has the union done for you lately? You tell me. Ask that person you see in the mirror "What has the union done for me?" See what they tell you. If they say nothing, then it is your fault that management rapes us all.

GET INVOLVED IN YOUR UNION

Great post FD777. Someone on another thread was suggesting that the union hasn't done enough. I suppose if someone is the type that sits on their hands and waits for good things to fall in their lap, they might think that way. As for me, the dues I'm paying have already been returned in value. I love waking up to my own alarm clock, instead of a ringing phone.

 

[Fozzy]

Topic for another thread.

FLOPS now obeys the FARs?

Anyone else?

Wonder if the CS cheerleaders will care to chime in on this one. I am sure they are still taking calls in their off time in order to upgrade or transition. FracTrash? Care to comment???

 

[FRACTRASH]

FOZZY: Please do your homework before you make comments like that. I've been here for several years and I can count on one hand how many times I've been kept out against my wishes because we ended somewhere they couldn't get us home. Not once have I or anyone here been called on days off to rush into work.

I honestly hope FLOPS guys and girls like your self get a fair shake. I have friends over there and only wish you the best. The next time you wish to bash me and my company, you better do a little homework, so you don't sound so foolish.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Wonder if the CS cheerleaders... I am sure they are still taking calls in their off time in order to upgrade or transition.

Fozzy, you have to be mental. Our GREAT company NEVER called me on a day off. Get your facts straight before you post such ignorant nonesense, Kid.

 

[Fozzy]

Maybe I should have made the question a little more clear. Do you go to training on your days off??? Company recurrent or sim.
Are you expected to answer the phone in the hotel after 10 hours off even if they told you that you have 10+X hours off?


Sorry I was not so clear with the other post. Just looking for answers from the best paid frac pilots out there.

 

[FRACTRASH]

FOZZY: If training falls on our days off, they adjust your next tour to give those days you lost back. When we are released to the hotel, we do not have to answer our phone for 10 hours and if they call you the clock starts over. When they say the magic words,"you're released." They then give the time 10 hours later, when you would be available to work.

 

[higgy]

FOZZY: If training falls on our days off, they adjust your next tour to give those days you lost back. When we are released to the hotel, we do not have to answer our phone for 10 hours and if they call you the clock starts over. When they say the magic words,"you're released." They then give the time 10 hours later, when you would be available to work.

Wait once they realse you and ur semt to the hotel they can call you in ten hours? Ok that makes sense and sounds fair. My question ( and it's just an honest querstion ) Does your duty start right then and there after 10 hours of rest? It seemsto me if your required to awnser the phone you should be consider on duty thus counting against your 14 hour max duty day. Im still not sure how Flex gets away with one. Their POI must live on a big lake with a grage full of wave runners

 

[FRACTRASH]

FOZZY: You are not required to answer the phone. If you decide to answer the phone, the ten hour clock is reset.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Frac....do you know what you are doing the next day prior to be "released" from duty?

Ok...so you get released...you spend 10 hours at the hotel......now you're available for them to call you and you must answer the phone. Once they call you are you then on duty or can they assign you a duty start time for later in the day, THEN your 14 hour clock starts?

That's the way it used to be here at NJA, prior to 91K. It was very difficult to establish ANY type of controlled sleep time. Not that its fantastic now but at least we know what time we are going to start our duty the next day prior to being shut down. If they tell us to report after 10hrs, 11 hrs, 12hrs or howmany hours we arer on duty with the 14 hour clock ticking even if they have nothing for us to do....we're still on duty.

 

[Fozzy]

FRAC:
So when they say "you are released", they give you a time 10 hours later, than what?
You have to be available to answer the phone???
Does your duty clock start at that time 10 hours later?
Can they call you at that 10 hour point and brief you for a 14 hour day starting in 3 hours?
Do they ever give you a time that is more than 10 hours later?
And if they did, do you still have to be available after 10 hours later even if they did? And can they change that last plan earlier or later???

I am glad to see you are not losing the days off for training. That would suck.

 

[FR8DOG777]

It is amazing that some operators feel like they need their pilots on a short leash. This is just one thing that the 1108 has done for me. Made my rest, mine. I don't owe the company my time while I am in rest. No one should, it sets ones self up for a possible accident. At FLOPS we use to be required to answer our phones if called. Then came along part 91k/135 regs for the fractionals. All of the sudden the wording was changed from required to expected to answer our phones. Why do think that would be? Since the implication of 135 at FLOPS you have to have a designated rest period free from any obligation to the company of at least 10 hours. The only way they could accomplish this is to give every pilot a release from duty, and at the same time an expected duty on time for the next assignment. So I get my release and I see that I go on duty the next day at Noon. I am free to do as wish from my release time up until my duty on time. I don't have to sit in the hotel by the phone, I don't have to check in prior to working out, I don't need permission to see a movie, and I don't even have to answer my company provided cell phone if I choose. Even after 135 was implemented at FLOPS, pilots were getting in trouble with their program managers for not answering the phone when called for that pop-up trip. Soon after we gained the support of IBT 1108 I haven't heard of anyone getting called about not answering their phones while off duty. Scheduling need to schedule accordingly. Management need to staff appropriately. I am to be on duty at my duty on time.
The other fractional companies that still force their pilots to be at their beck and call, or put them in a limbo state of duty (not in rest, but not on duty) need to wake up and smell the regs. It is OK if you choose to answer you phone, but don't discipline your pilot if he chooses not to answer. Some day at FLOPS I can see it going somewhat back to the old way; when I am called I may answer my phone provided I have received adequate and legal rest. Not now, not during negotiations, and not until the company respects the pilots for the professionals that we are.
So if your frac company wants it's cake and eat it too in regards to your rest period. You don't have to spoon feed it to them, you can make them earn it. Why give them your free time.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Don't forget they can use you, as long as you get your 10 hours rest in the last 24 hours. They can call you for an assignment after you have had your 10 hours of uninterrupted rest and your duty doesn't start until you report to the FBO, which is 1 hour before departure. But you can't take an assignment unless you've had your ten hours uninterrupted rest looking back 24 hours.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Don't forget they can use you, as long as you get your 10 hours rest in the last 24 hours. They can call you for an assignment after you have had your 10 hours of uninterrupted rest and your duty doesn't start until you report to the FBO, which is 1 hour before departure. But you can't take an assignment unless you've had your ten hours uninterrupted rest looking back 24 hours.

That is correct. They can use me after 10 hours of uninterrupted rest providing they put me on duty after 10 hours. I still don't have to answer my phone until I'm on duty. I am not obligated to the company during my rest period no matter how long it may be; 10, 11, 12, or 20 hours. No 135/91k pilot is obligated to the company during your rest period.

Your rest period must be defined. There are only two states a pilot can be placed in; rest or duty. You can't be sorta in rest or sorta on duty. You can either be in rest and free from all duties to the company, or you can be on duty and then they can do what they like with you. If rest and duty are not defined on a daily basis you could fall into the trap that a lot of scum bag operators try to pull. They try to roll the clock back and forth to benefit them. Say you stared your day at 1200z. You then finish your last trip at 2200z. If you do not have a defined release time are you on duty till 0200z or shortly after 2200z? So when does you rest start? When is your required 10 hours of uninterrupted rest begin? Without knowing what your defined rest period is how do you know if you are legal to do that pop-up trip. The reason the feds made the rules was for safety. The reason companies try to bend or interpret the rules in their favor is for profit.

 

[FRACTRASH]

read next post

 

[FRACTRASH]

Coming from a 121 operation. I think fractional companies push the envelope on rest more than the airlines do. All I can say, If you feel your not legal or you haven't had enough rest, call in fatigued. Recognizing the importance of flight crews getting enough rest has improved at CS over the last several years.

 

[Diesel]

how many answer their phone to be good company boys and girls?

 

[dash_trash]

Too many are answering their phones and helping management out of the hole they have dug. Why would anyone help contribute to the loss of another pilots job? Selfishness would be the proper response. Our collective voice, as the 1108, is much stronger than the one selfish voice management hears when someone actually answers their phone and/or works overtime for them.

If we are so overstaffed (possible furloughs) why is it so difficult to get home? Why do they press you so hard to fly an illegal plane? Why do they schedule you to the very minimum rest required? The answer: every time a pilot does something to “help” the company, proves to them they can do more with less. By you doing so, you just helped eliminate your position! Farsighted fools who continue to only see the next paycheck, as opposed to those who actually look to the future must be the answer.

I can’t reiterate enough, how comforting it is knowing that I wont be answering the phone regardless of how crappy the latest “Motel” is!!!