FLOPS union and ME

[FR8DOG777]

Don't forget they can use you, as long as you get your 10 hours rest in the last 24 hours. They can call you for an assignment after you have had your 10 hours of uninterrupted rest and your duty doesn't start until you report to the FBO, which is 1 hour before departure. But you can't take an assignment unless you've had your ten hours uninterrupted rest looking back 24 hours.

That is correct. They can use me after 10 hours of uninterrupted rest providing they put me on duty after 10 hours. I still don't have to answer my phone until I'm on duty. I am not obligated to the company during my rest period no matter how long it may be; 10, 11, 12, or 20 hours. No 135/91k pilot is obligated to the company during your rest period.

Your rest period must be defined. There are only two states a pilot can be placed in; rest or duty. You can't be sorta in rest or sorta on duty. You can either be in rest and free from all duties to the company, or you can be on duty and then they can do what they like with you. If rest and duty are not defined on a daily basis you could fall into the trap that a lot of scum bag operators try to pull. They try to roll the clock back and forth to benefit them. Say you stared your day at 1200z. You then finish your last trip at 2200z. If you do not have a defined release time are you on duty till 0200z or shortly after 2200z? So when does you rest start? When is your required 10 hours of uninterrupted rest begin? Without knowing what your defined rest period is how do you know if you are legal to do that pop-up trip. The reason the feds made the rules was for safety. The reason companies try to bend or interpret the rules in their favor is for profit.

 

[FRACTRASH]

read next post

 

[FRACTRASH]

Coming from a 121 operation. I think fractional companies push the envelope on rest more than the airlines do. All I can say, If you feel your not legal or you haven't had enough rest, call in fatigued. Recognizing the importance of flight crews getting enough rest has improved at CS over the last several years.

 

[Diesel]

how many answer their phone to be good company boys and girls?

 

[dash_trash]

Too many are answering their phones and helping management out of the hole they have dug. Why would anyone help contribute to the loss of another pilots job? Selfishness would be the proper response. Our collective voice, as the 1108, is much stronger than the one selfish voice management hears when someone actually answers their phone and/or works overtime for them.

If we are so overstaffed (possible furloughs) why is it so difficult to get home? Why do they press you so hard to fly an illegal plane? Why do they schedule you to the very minimum rest required? The answer: every time a pilot does something to “help” the company, proves to them they can do more with less. By you doing so, you just helped eliminate your position! Farsighted fools who continue to only see the next paycheck, as opposed to those who actually look to the future must be the answer.

I can’t reiterate enough, how comforting it is knowing that I wont be answering the phone regardless of how crappy the latest “Motel” is!!!

 

[gunfyter]

Coming from a 121 operation. I think fractional companies push the envelope on rest more than the airlines do. All I can say, If you feel your not legal or you haven't had enough rest, call in fatigued. Recognizing the importance of flight crews getting enough rest has improved at CS over the last several years.

When you are released from duty and put into Rest. You must know PROSPECTIVELY when your rest will end.

If you are off duty at 2000L... and given a rest end and report time of 1100L the next day... You cannot be required to answer phones or pagers starting 10 hrs after you were shut down (or 0600l).

I believe only NJ and FLOPS are following the Rest Rules correctly.

 

[netjetwife]

Those Options pilots claiming not to see what the Union has done for them are technically correct. When it comes to your rest period, it's what you don't see that counts the most. So the next time that you're staring at the back of your eyelids--seeing nothing--- please reflect on the reason that is. It wouldn't be a coincidence if the two frac companies with the best track record for following Rest Rules have pilots that belong to Local 1108. Management doesn't like it but they do recognize that there's strength in numbers.

Dash and 'Dog, during their contract battle the NJ group had these same discussions about not helping management take advantage of the pilots. The education made a difference for those who were slower to realize they had the power to change their situation for the better. Some of those debates took place on this board. It pleases me to see the Options pilots now having the same debate among their ranks. I consider it a sound of progress! Hang in there! Netjetwife

 

[Pervis]

This may have been addressed already. At NJA, when shut down for the eveining, the minimum rest is ten hours. We could get a brief for duty after that, but if we are briefed for a 20 hour layover, they cannot touch us till those 20 hours are up. No ASAPs as soon as 10 hours are up. That was how our POI interprets the rules and this policy was instituted before the new CBA, when 91K was instituted. Now there is no threat of policy or FAA violations when time allows for a cold beer with dinner, and if you adjust your sleep cycle for a shift change, you don't get interupted after 2 hours sleep. One of the best work rules we have.

 

[ozpilot]

Those Options pilots claiming not to see what the Union has done for them are technically correct.

To be fair NJW, Netjets (the company, not the union) were major contributers to the development of 91K. Again to their credit, the company has complied with it to the letter from day one.

 

[Fozzy]

oz,
I think 1108/284 has their fingerprints all over 91k. We also have our fingerprints all over compliance.

 

[netjetwife]

I think compliance is better when more people are watching and a group with clout is holding your feet to the fire. Just human nature, it seems. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, and I can see how NJ would have been better than FLOPS at compliance. They've had to answer to the pilots longer.... Options pilots are still learning how to speak up. Good Luck to them! NJW

 

[Diesel]

Actually not that I'd know anything about this but....

Compliance is best used when the pilot group is informed as to violations and then grieve it with the unions help. Without grievances the union can't show that the company is failing to comply to the agreed upon contract.

Sometimes holding their feet to the fire is not the correct action but showing the company that they aren't complying and giving them a chance to change their practices. If they fail to fix their erronious ways then the union steps in and pushes the issue up the chain till it gets done right.