FLOPS union and ME

[FRACTRASH]

FOZZY: You are not required to answer the phone. If you decide to answer the phone, the ten hour clock is reset.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Frac....do you know what you are doing the next day prior to be "released" from duty?

Ok...so you get released...you spend 10 hours at the hotel......now you're available for them to call you and you must answer the phone. Once they call you are you then on duty or can they assign you a duty start time for later in the day, THEN your 14 hour clock starts?

That's the way it used to be here at NJA, prior to 91K. It was very difficult to establish ANY type of controlled sleep time. Not that its fantastic now but at least we know what time we are going to start our duty the next day prior to being shut down. If they tell us to report after 10hrs, 11 hrs, 12hrs or howmany hours we arer on duty with the 14 hour clock ticking even if they have nothing for us to do....we're still on duty.

 

[Fozzy]

FRAC:
So when they say "you are released", they give you a time 10 hours later, than what?
You have to be available to answer the phone???
Does your duty clock start at that time 10 hours later?
Can they call you at that 10 hour point and brief you for a 14 hour day starting in 3 hours?
Do they ever give you a time that is more than 10 hours later?
And if they did, do you still have to be available after 10 hours later even if they did? And can they change that last plan earlier or later???

I am glad to see you are not losing the days off for training. That would suck.

 

[FR8DOG777]

It is amazing that some operators feel like they need their pilots on a short leash. This is just one thing that the 1108 has done for me. Made my rest, mine. I don't owe the company my time while I am in rest. No one should, it sets ones self up for a possible accident. At FLOPS we use to be required to answer our phones if called. Then came along part 91k/135 regs for the fractionals. All of the sudden the wording was changed from required to expected to answer our phones. Why do think that would be? Since the implication of 135 at FLOPS you have to have a designated rest period free from any obligation to the company of at least 10 hours. The only way they could accomplish this is to give every pilot a release from duty, and at the same time an expected duty on time for the next assignment. So I get my release and I see that I go on duty the next day at Noon. I am free to do as wish from my release time up until my duty on time. I don't have to sit in the hotel by the phone, I don't have to check in prior to working out, I don't need permission to see a movie, and I don't even have to answer my company provided cell phone if I choose. Even after 135 was implemented at FLOPS, pilots were getting in trouble with their program managers for not answering the phone when called for that pop-up trip. Soon after we gained the support of IBT 1108 I haven't heard of anyone getting called about not answering their phones while off duty. Scheduling need to schedule accordingly. Management need to staff appropriately. I am to be on duty at my duty on time.
The other fractional companies that still force their pilots to be at their beck and call, or put them in a limbo state of duty (not in rest, but not on duty) need to wake up and smell the regs. It is OK if you choose to answer you phone, but don't discipline your pilot if he chooses not to answer. Some day at FLOPS I can see it going somewhat back to the old way; when I am called I may answer my phone provided I have received adequate and legal rest. Not now, not during negotiations, and not until the company respects the pilots for the professionals that we are.
So if your frac company wants it's cake and eat it too in regards to your rest period. You don't have to spoon feed it to them, you can make them earn it. Why give them your free time.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Don't forget they can use you, as long as you get your 10 hours rest in the last 24 hours. They can call you for an assignment after you have had your 10 hours of uninterrupted rest and your duty doesn't start until you report to the FBO, which is 1 hour before departure. But you can't take an assignment unless you've had your ten hours uninterrupted rest looking back 24 hours.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Don't forget they can use you, as long as you get your 10 hours rest in the last 24 hours. They can call you for an assignment after you have had your 10 hours of uninterrupted rest and your duty doesn't start until you report to the FBO, which is 1 hour before departure. But you can't take an assignment unless you've had your ten hours uninterrupted rest looking back 24 hours.

That is correct. They can use me after 10 hours of uninterrupted rest providing they put me on duty after 10 hours. I still don't have to answer my phone until I'm on duty. I am not obligated to the company during my rest period no matter how long it may be; 10, 11, 12, or 20 hours. No 135/91k pilot is obligated to the company during your rest period.

Your rest period must be defined. There are only two states a pilot can be placed in; rest or duty. You can't be sorta in rest or sorta on duty. You can either be in rest and free from all duties to the company, or you can be on duty and then they can do what they like with you. If rest and duty are not defined on a daily basis you could fall into the trap that a lot of scum bag operators try to pull. They try to roll the clock back and forth to benefit them. Say you stared your day at 1200z. You then finish your last trip at 2200z. If you do not have a defined release time are you on duty till 0200z or shortly after 2200z? So when does you rest start? When is your required 10 hours of uninterrupted rest begin? Without knowing what your defined rest period is how do you know if you are legal to do that pop-up trip. The reason the feds made the rules was for safety. The reason companies try to bend or interpret the rules in their favor is for profit.

 

[FRACTRASH]

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[FRACTRASH]

Coming from a 121 operation. I think fractional companies push the envelope on rest more than the airlines do. All I can say, If you feel your not legal or you haven't had enough rest, call in fatigued. Recognizing the importance of flight crews getting enough rest has improved at CS over the last several years.

 

[Diesel]

how many answer their phone to be good company boys and girls?

 

[dash_trash]

Too many are answering their phones and helping management out of the hole they have dug. Why would anyone help contribute to the loss of another pilots job? Selfishness would be the proper response. Our collective voice, as the 1108, is much stronger than the one selfish voice management hears when someone actually answers their phone and/or works overtime for them.

If we are so overstaffed (possible furloughs) why is it so difficult to get home? Why do they press you so hard to fly an illegal plane? Why do they schedule you to the very minimum rest required? The answer: every time a pilot does something to “help” the company, proves to them they can do more with less. By you doing so, you just helped eliminate your position! Farsighted fools who continue to only see the next paycheck, as opposed to those who actually look to the future must be the answer.

I can’t reiterate enough, how comforting it is knowing that I wont be answering the phone regardless of how crappy the latest “Motel” is!!!