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FLOPS pilots file for mediation
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SilverSurfer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2007
- Posts
- 305
Special MEC announcement
Page 1
MEC Special Announcement
Dear Flight Options Pilot:
This Flight Options Pilots’ MEC Special Announcement concerns two events of interest to all pilots: management’s decision to use the April 23, 2008 Q2 company meeting to address the status of contract negotiations and the announcement of two new investors in Flight Options.
Management’s “Negotiations Update”: The Pilots’ Patience Is Being Tried.
On April 23 senior management presented a PowerPoint slide entitled “Negotiations Update” to attendees of the Q2 company meeting. Several of their Q2 statements are worthy of comment by your Union. Management complained that the parties have agreed to only 3 of 30 contract sections in 22 months of bargaining and key items, such as salary, benefits and certain work rules, have not yet been discussed. Management also stated that progress in negotiations has been slow despite a stepped up bargaining schedule between March and June. Finally, another bullet point claimed that management’s bargaining representatives proposed “an approach” to reach an agreement in the next 90 to 120 days.
When management referred to the number of contract sections tentatively agreed to by the parties, they did not present a complete picture of what has occurred in bargaining. Most importantly, they failed to disclose that only a very few subsections remain to be negotiated in many of the remaining open sections of the contract.
For example, in Section 13: Crew Bases, the only provision open is the one addressing a pilot’s right to change Crew Bases. In the accompanying Grandfathering Letter of Agreement (LOA), the only issue remaining concerns a right of remaining Tier III pilots to elect to return to their former domiciles. In Section 16: Leaves of Absence, the only provision with little or no economic impact remaining open addresses accrual of longevity while on a leave of absence. In Section 21: Grievance Procedure, the only provisions management hasn’t yet agreed to are those dealing with their obligation to provide the Union with information necessary to investigate and process grievances, ensuring pilots don’t lose pay for attending grievance hearings, use of a court reporter and the location of hearings. There are several other examples in other sections of the contract, as well. In other words, meaningful progress has been made on a number of sections and, for some reason, senior management didn’t want to tell you about it.
In order to address many of the open miscellaneous subsections, your Union proposed to management that the two bargaining committees work in small groups on separate sections of the contract. Group leaders would have the authority to resolve disputed items subject to legal review. We made this proposal several negotiating sessions ago in order to increase the productivity of the upcoming negotiating sessions. To date, management has rejected your Union’s proposal to speed up negotiations in this manner.
So why would management fail to address these facts in their recent Q2 company meeting presentation?
Maybe management wants you to believe that collective bargaining is not an effective method for addressing your concerns over rates of pay, benefits and working conditions despite all the evidence and history that unions are the only effective vehicles protecting pilots’ interests across the commercial aviation world. Maybe management wants you to lose faith in your Union, which is all of us, acting collectively to advance our own economic interests. If that is the case, the senior management group that is trying to plant the seeds of doubt and despair in our ranks is the very same senior management group that is responsible for making Flight Options pilots the lowest paid in the fractional industry.
The facts speak for themselves. The following daily rate charts for Small Cabin Captains and First Officers (F/O) at several fractional carriers are derived from publicly available data believed to be reliable as of April 2008 (new, as yet unpublished higher pay rates to go into effect at Flexjet on May 1). In order to normalize the differences between schedules at different fractional carriers, i.e., 7 & 7 or 8 & 7, an annualized daily rate is used, which is how much a pilot is paid for each scheduled workday during a typical year. These daily rate charts show only those fractional carriers with published rates for the first 10 years of service (some fractional carriers do not publish F/O rates beyond 5 years). You can readily see the dramatic degree to which Flight Options pilots’ pay lags behind that of our peers at other fractional carriers, not only because we are paid less per workday, but because we also work more days per year than most other fractional pilots and often “slide to poverty” when changing aircraft or status. The daily rate charts for the Mid and Large Cabin Fleets, which are not shown, portray similarly dismal results.
If senior management is dissatisfied with progress at the bargaining table–your Union is even more dissatisfied than they are—senior management must look long and hard in the mirror and take responsibility for their own actions. In a previous announcement your Union said that additional bargaining dates are a positive development only if management comes to the table ready to make an industry standard agreement and uses its time wisely when your Union Negotiating Committee is in Cleveland. We do not believe that is happening. Here are some examples of how management used its bargaining time during the last session.
Management spent over 8 hours in a caucus on Tuesday, April 22, making mostly non-substantive changes (e.g. capitalization, paragraph numbering, commas) to its own previously proposed Section 13: Crew Base and Grandfathering LOA provisions, many of which your Union had already accepted. Your Union understands that long caucuses are part of the process and proposals take time to analyze. However, long caucuses serve bargaining only if they result in positive steps forward toward agreements. There is absolutely no reason why management had to wait until the first day of negotiations this last session to make the kinds of modifications it did. These changes should have been completed before Tuesday morning in order to be presented at the very beginning of the bargaining session, if not in advance. After all, Monday is a normal business workday for management and all pilots work weekends on a regular basis.
In the interest of full disclosure, on April 22 management also made what can be viewed as one substantive, albeit unsatisfactory, change to a Section 13 provision the parties had previously agreed to set aside. The provision had been sidelined so the parties could focus on discussions over Section 19: Schedules and miscellaneous open subsections. As previously mentioned, the Section 13 provision in dispute deals with a pilot’s right to change Crew Bases for the purpose of choosing where he begins and ends duty. Management’s position would impose significant restrictions on a pilot’s rights and, in some cases, prevent a pilot’s movement to a desired Crew Base, even if the pilot had a summer or winter residence near the Crew Base of his choice. What could possibly be the issue underlying management’s bargaining position?
Page 1
Dear Flight Options Pilot:
This Flight Options Pilots’ MEC Special Announcement concerns two events of interest to all pilots: management’s decision to use the April 23, 2008 Q2 company meeting to address the status of contract negotiations and the announcement of two new investors in Flight Options.
Management’s “Negotiations Update”: The Pilots’ Patience Is Being Tried.
On April 23 senior management presented a PowerPoint slide entitled “Negotiations Update” to attendees of the Q2 company meeting. Several of their Q2 statements are worthy of comment by your Union. Management complained that the parties have agreed to only 3 of 30 contract sections in 22 months of bargaining and key items, such as salary, benefits and certain work rules, have not yet been discussed. Management also stated that progress in negotiations has been slow despite a stepped up bargaining schedule between March and June. Finally, another bullet point claimed that management’s bargaining representatives proposed “an approach” to reach an agreement in the next 90 to 120 days.
When management referred to the number of contract sections tentatively agreed to by the parties, they did not present a complete picture of what has occurred in bargaining. Most importantly, they failed to disclose that only a very few subsections remain to be negotiated in many of the remaining open sections of the contract.
For example, in Section 13: Crew Bases, the only provision open is the one addressing a pilot’s right to change Crew Bases. In the accompanying Grandfathering Letter of Agreement (LOA), the only issue remaining concerns a right of remaining Tier III pilots to elect to return to their former domiciles. In Section 16: Leaves of Absence, the only provision with little or no economic impact remaining open addresses accrual of longevity while on a leave of absence. In Section 21: Grievance Procedure, the only provisions management hasn’t yet agreed to are those dealing with their obligation to provide the Union with information necessary to investigate and process grievances, ensuring pilots don’t lose pay for attending grievance hearings, use of a court reporter and the location of hearings. There are several other examples in other sections of the contract, as well. In other words, meaningful progress has been made on a number of sections and, for some reason, senior management didn’t want to tell you about it.
In order to address many of the open miscellaneous subsections, your Union proposed to management that the two bargaining committees work in small groups on separate sections of the contract. Group leaders would have the authority to resolve disputed items subject to legal review. We made this proposal several negotiating sessions ago in order to increase the productivity of the upcoming negotiating sessions. To date, management has rejected your Union’s proposal to speed up negotiations in this manner.
So why would management fail to address these facts in their recent Q2 company meeting presentation?
Maybe management wants you to believe that collective bargaining is not an effective method for addressing your concerns over rates of pay, benefits and working conditions despite all the evidence and history that unions are the only effective vehicles protecting pilots’ interests across the commercial aviation world. Maybe management wants you to lose faith in your Union, which is all of us, acting collectively to advance our own economic interests. If that is the case, the senior management group that is trying to plant the seeds of doubt and despair in our ranks is the very same senior management group that is responsible for making Flight Options pilots the lowest paid in the fractional industry.
The facts speak for themselves. The following daily rate charts for Small Cabin Captains and First Officers (F/O) at several fractional carriers are derived from publicly available data believed to be reliable as of April 2008 (new, as yet unpublished higher pay rates to go into effect at Flexjet on May 1). In order to normalize the differences between schedules at different fractional carriers, i.e., 7 & 7 or 8 & 7, an annualized daily rate is used, which is how much a pilot is paid for each scheduled workday during a typical year. These daily rate charts show only those fractional carriers with published rates for the first 10 years of service (some fractional carriers do not publish F/O rates beyond 5 years). You can readily see the dramatic degree to which Flight Options pilots’ pay lags behind that of our peers at other fractional carriers, not only because we are paid less per workday, but because we also work more days per year than most other fractional pilots and often “slide to poverty” when changing aircraft or status. The daily rate charts for the Mid and Large Cabin Fleets, which are not shown, portray similarly dismal results.
If senior management is dissatisfied with progress at the bargaining table–your Union is even more dissatisfied than they are—senior management must look long and hard in the mirror and take responsibility for their own actions. In a previous announcement your Union said that additional bargaining dates are a positive development only if management comes to the table ready to make an industry standard agreement and uses its time wisely when your Union Negotiating Committee is in Cleveland. We do not believe that is happening. Here are some examples of how management used its bargaining time during the last session.
Management spent over 8 hours in a caucus on Tuesday, April 22, making mostly non-substantive changes (e.g. capitalization, paragraph numbering, commas) to its own previously proposed Section 13: Crew Base and Grandfathering LOA provisions, many of which your Union had already accepted. Your Union understands that long caucuses are part of the process and proposals take time to analyze. However, long caucuses serve bargaining only if they result in positive steps forward toward agreements. There is absolutely no reason why management had to wait until the first day of negotiations this last session to make the kinds of modifications it did. These changes should have been completed before Tuesday morning in order to be presented at the very beginning of the bargaining session, if not in advance. After all, Monday is a normal business workday for management and all pilots work weekends on a regular basis.
In the interest of full disclosure, on April 22 management also made what can be viewed as one substantive, albeit unsatisfactory, change to a Section 13 provision the parties had previously agreed to set aside. The provision had been sidelined so the parties could focus on discussions over Section 19: Schedules and miscellaneous open subsections. As previously mentioned, the Section 13 provision in dispute deals with a pilot’s right to change Crew Bases for the purpose of choosing where he begins and ends duty. Management’s position would impose significant restrictions on a pilot’s rights and, in some cases, prevent a pilot’s movement to a desired Crew Base, even if the pilot had a summer or winter residence near the Crew Base of his choice. What could possibly be the issue underlying management’s bargaining position?
Last edited:
SilverSurfer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2007
- Posts
- 305
Special MEC announcement
Page 2
Lately, management has repeatedly claimed it is concerned your Union’s proposed voluntary Crew Base change provision (up to 4 times in a rolling 12 month period compared to other fractional carriers that permit a move every 30 days) might encourage pilots to engage in a mass migration to remote airports. Your Union has pointed out, and management has agreed, there isn’t a single example in all of aviation labor history to support management’s fears. Your Union has pointed out, and management has agreed, pilots who might engage in such behavior would impose significant costs on themselves, such as moving their families and belongings to such remote locations, or traveling on their own time and money to and from their actual residences in say, New York City or Cleveland, to be available at the remote location at the start of every duty tour.
Management continues to spend valuable time trying to find language to prohibit the improbable at the expense of reaching agreements on the possible. Does this sound like a management group focused on expediting negotiations or even solving its own operational problems? Your Union believes they are simply raising “red herrings” and apparently have the time to do so.
So, how did the rest of the week go? At approximately 1145 on Wednesday, April 23, your Union negotiators presented a proposal requiring management to return pilots to their base by midnight on their last day of work or pay an economic penalty and change the pilot’s start time on the next duty tour to restore the lost time off. Management did not respond to your Union’s proposal until 1845 on Thursday evening, April 24. What was management’s response after a day and a half of “diligently working” on their proposal? It was merely a one sentence counter-proposal identical to the current company policy that provides overtime and per diem for arrivals after 0300 with no time recovery or financial disincentive for doing it to pilots tour after tour.
On Friday, April 25, management negotiators took an extreme position—one that would permit them to use information taken from CVRs and FDRs for disciplinary purposes. CVRs and FDRs are not intended to aid management in imposing discipline nor are they “snitch boxes.” These technologies are intended to serve the interest of safety only. Management knows that fact. So, why stake out an extreme position that wastes bargaining time?
In addition, during the earlier bargaining week of April 7 and yet again during this past session, your Union requested a management presentation on recently announced Canadian operations. To date, management has failed to provide your Union with any information despite the fact the information is necessary and relevant to scope negotiations. While complaining about the pace of negotiations, management is simultaneously slowing down the process. Management can’t have its cake and eat it too.
Management says it proposed an “approach” for reaching an agreement in the next 90 to 120 days. Did management propose anything that would change the fact Flight Options pilots are the lowest paid in the fractional industry? No! Did management propose changes to existing working conditions responsive to pilots’ desire for alternative schedules, safer duty period limitations, better rest guarantees, improved benefits, decent layover accommodations, and industry standard scope protections? No! Did management mention any of this during their Q2 presentation? No!
It’s easy for management to say they want to reach a contract in 90 to 120 days. Pilots want a contract as soon as possible. Your Union wants a contract as soon as possible. But the contract must provide industry-standard pay and working conditions. What management appears to want is a contract that essentially incorporates the existing substandard terms and conditions of employment contained in their current policy manuals. If your Union would agree to that, a tentative contract in 90 to 120 days is certainly a possibility. But, that’s not going to happen! The days of the Flight Options pilots subsidizing this operation are over.
This senior management group has obviously not yet grasped the simple fact the Flight Options pilots are no longer willing to suffer the economic hardships and embarrassment associated with the current rates of pay and working conditions imposed upon them by this very same senior management group. When senior management comes to grips with the fact pilots are no longer buying what senior management has been selling, these negotiations will begin to proceed expeditiously to a mutually agreeable conclusion. The longer it takes, the more the pilots will lose faith in this senior management group’s ability to lead the company to a contract with its pilots.
Consequently, your Union has elected to file an Application for Mediation with the National Mediation Board (NMB), the federal agency charged with administering the Railway Labor Act (RLA). The NMB and its mediators do not take “sides” in a dispute, nor do they have the power to compel either party to make a concession or enter into an agreement. As provided for in the RLA, the NMB is responsible for providing mediation services to help the parties reach a settlementshould the parties fail to reach an agreement during direct negotiations. For more information about how mediation works and the role of the NMB, please consult the NMB’s website, www.nmb.gov, as well as the materials on your Union’s website, www.ibt1108.org.
In the coming days and weeks, we will provide you with additional information about how the mediation process works and how it affects negotiations. Going forward, your Union intends to continue bargaining with management during the months of May and June as previously scheduled. We are committed to making the best use of our time at the bargaining table with management this spring, with or without the mediator being present. The most important thing to know is that your Union’s bargaining goals remain unchanged. Mediation is simply a step in the bargaining process as specified in the RLA. We intend to negotiate for an industry standard contract and we remain ready to partner with management to reach that goal whenever they are ready to do the same.
New Investors at Flight Options: Think Like They Do.
The recent announcement that HIG Capital has added two new investors, Resilience Capital Partners and Directional Aviation Capital, presents an opportunity to restate the critical role unions play in the lives of pilots.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why groups of investors pool their money and take financial positions in companies: to make more money, first, last and always. Think of it as a form of collective action by the super-rich.
At an economic level, unions represent workers pooling their most valuable resource—their labor—in order to maximize income and obtain better working conditions through collective bargaining. In an age of government deregulation and skyrocketing CEO compensation made possible by stagnate or declining employee wages, unions are pilots’ only effective response to economic injustice.
One pilot standing alone doesn’t have any bargaining power relative to the power of pooled capital. Any belief to the contrary is based on a self-defeating delusion rather than economic reality. Pilot unions are a response to that economic reality and a demand to change it. Indeed, a strong pilot union has the power to ensure its members get their rightful piece of the pie—the pie that their labor makes possible.
Of course, unions do more than increase salaries for their membership. Unions bring the voice of employees to the workplace decision-making process. As employees gain power in the workplace, employee interests, such as quality of life, health, safety and desire for respect and dignity, become part and parcel with “company interests,” so long as there is a senior management group that has the vision and credibility to act in partnership with employees. In the end, partnership isn’t a choice; it’s a necessity if the investors are going to make more money.
An investor who turns his back on an opportunity to make more money is known as a fool among his peers. A pilot who doesn’t see the critical necessity of supporting a strong union is a pilot acting foolishly against his own economic self-interests.
The names of the investors and the personalities at Flight Options have changed and will likely change again. However, nothing has changed for the Flight Options pilots. The only way this company becomes a better place to work is if pilots make their Union a strong union. There are no short cuts; there are no alternative ways. No one can or will rescue the Flight Options pilots except the Flight Options pilots acting through our Union. Once again, any belief to the contrary is based on a self-defeating delusion rather than economic reality. The Flight Options pilots have demonstrated we have no delusions about our present economic condition and how we got here. The point now, is to change that economic condition to one that is acceptable going forward.
Fraternally,
The Flight Options Pilots’ Master Executive Council
Page 2
Lately, management has repeatedly claimed it is concerned your Union’s proposed voluntary Crew Base change provision (up to 4 times in a rolling 12 month period compared to other fractional carriers that permit a move every 30 days) might encourage pilots to engage in a mass migration to remote airports. Your Union has pointed out, and management has agreed, there isn’t a single example in all of aviation labor history to support management’s fears. Your Union has pointed out, and management has agreed, pilots who might engage in such behavior would impose significant costs on themselves, such as moving their families and belongings to such remote locations, or traveling on their own time and money to and from their actual residences in say, New York City or Cleveland, to be available at the remote location at the start of every duty tour.
Management continues to spend valuable time trying to find language to prohibit the improbable at the expense of reaching agreements on the possible. Does this sound like a management group focused on expediting negotiations or even solving its own operational problems? Your Union believes they are simply raising “red herrings” and apparently have the time to do so.
So, how did the rest of the week go? At approximately 1145 on Wednesday, April 23, your Union negotiators presented a proposal requiring management to return pilots to their base by midnight on their last day of work or pay an economic penalty and change the pilot’s start time on the next duty tour to restore the lost time off. Management did not respond to your Union’s proposal until 1845 on Thursday evening, April 24. What was management’s response after a day and a half of “diligently working” on their proposal? It was merely a one sentence counter-proposal identical to the current company policy that provides overtime and per diem for arrivals after 0300 with no time recovery or financial disincentive for doing it to pilots tour after tour.
On Friday, April 25, management negotiators took an extreme position—one that would permit them to use information taken from CVRs and FDRs for disciplinary purposes. CVRs and FDRs are not intended to aid management in imposing discipline nor are they “snitch boxes.” These technologies are intended to serve the interest of safety only. Management knows that fact. So, why stake out an extreme position that wastes bargaining time?
In addition, during the earlier bargaining week of April 7 and yet again during this past session, your Union requested a management presentation on recently announced Canadian operations. To date, management has failed to provide your Union with any information despite the fact the information is necessary and relevant to scope negotiations. While complaining about the pace of negotiations, management is simultaneously slowing down the process. Management can’t have its cake and eat it too.
Management says it proposed an “approach” for reaching an agreement in the next 90 to 120 days. Did management propose anything that would change the fact Flight Options pilots are the lowest paid in the fractional industry? No! Did management propose changes to existing working conditions responsive to pilots’ desire for alternative schedules, safer duty period limitations, better rest guarantees, improved benefits, decent layover accommodations, and industry standard scope protections? No! Did management mention any of this during their Q2 presentation? No!
It’s easy for management to say they want to reach a contract in 90 to 120 days. Pilots want a contract as soon as possible. Your Union wants a contract as soon as possible. But the contract must provide industry-standard pay and working conditions. What management appears to want is a contract that essentially incorporates the existing substandard terms and conditions of employment contained in their current policy manuals. If your Union would agree to that, a tentative contract in 90 to 120 days is certainly a possibility. But, that’s not going to happen! The days of the Flight Options pilots subsidizing this operation are over.
This senior management group has obviously not yet grasped the simple fact the Flight Options pilots are no longer willing to suffer the economic hardships and embarrassment associated with the current rates of pay and working conditions imposed upon them by this very same senior management group. When senior management comes to grips with the fact pilots are no longer buying what senior management has been selling, these negotiations will begin to proceed expeditiously to a mutually agreeable conclusion. The longer it takes, the more the pilots will lose faith in this senior management group’s ability to lead the company to a contract with its pilots.
Consequently, your Union has elected to file an Application for Mediation with the National Mediation Board (NMB), the federal agency charged with administering the Railway Labor Act (RLA). The NMB and its mediators do not take “sides” in a dispute, nor do they have the power to compel either party to make a concession or enter into an agreement. As provided for in the RLA, the NMB is responsible for providing mediation services to help the parties reach a settlementshould the parties fail to reach an agreement during direct negotiations. For more information about how mediation works and the role of the NMB, please consult the NMB’s website, www.nmb.gov, as well as the materials on your Union’s website, www.ibt1108.org.
In the coming days and weeks, we will provide you with additional information about how the mediation process works and how it affects negotiations. Going forward, your Union intends to continue bargaining with management during the months of May and June as previously scheduled. We are committed to making the best use of our time at the bargaining table with management this spring, with or without the mediator being present. The most important thing to know is that your Union’s bargaining goals remain unchanged. Mediation is simply a step in the bargaining process as specified in the RLA. We intend to negotiate for an industry standard contract and we remain ready to partner with management to reach that goal whenever they are ready to do the same.
New Investors at Flight Options: Think Like They Do.
The recent announcement that HIG Capital has added two new investors, Resilience Capital Partners and Directional Aviation Capital, presents an opportunity to restate the critical role unions play in the lives of pilots.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why groups of investors pool their money and take financial positions in companies: to make more money, first, last and always. Think of it as a form of collective action by the super-rich.
At an economic level, unions represent workers pooling their most valuable resource—their labor—in order to maximize income and obtain better working conditions through collective bargaining. In an age of government deregulation and skyrocketing CEO compensation made possible by stagnate or declining employee wages, unions are pilots’ only effective response to economic injustice.
One pilot standing alone doesn’t have any bargaining power relative to the power of pooled capital. Any belief to the contrary is based on a self-defeating delusion rather than economic reality. Pilot unions are a response to that economic reality and a demand to change it. Indeed, a strong pilot union has the power to ensure its members get their rightful piece of the pie—the pie that their labor makes possible.
Of course, unions do more than increase salaries for their membership. Unions bring the voice of employees to the workplace decision-making process. As employees gain power in the workplace, employee interests, such as quality of life, health, safety and desire for respect and dignity, become part and parcel with “company interests,” so long as there is a senior management group that has the vision and credibility to act in partnership with employees. In the end, partnership isn’t a choice; it’s a necessity if the investors are going to make more money.
An investor who turns his back on an opportunity to make more money is known as a fool among his peers. A pilot who doesn’t see the critical necessity of supporting a strong union is a pilot acting foolishly against his own economic self-interests.
The names of the investors and the personalities at Flight Options have changed and will likely change again. However, nothing has changed for the Flight Options pilots. The only way this company becomes a better place to work is if pilots make their Union a strong union. There are no short cuts; there are no alternative ways. No one can or will rescue the Flight Options pilots except the Flight Options pilots acting through our Union. Once again, any belief to the contrary is based on a self-defeating delusion rather than economic reality. The Flight Options pilots have demonstrated we have no delusions about our present economic condition and how we got here. The point now, is to change that economic condition to one that is acceptable going forward.
Fraternally,
The Flight Options Pilots’ Master Executive Council
Leave it alone
Don't even tease him, he just found out about his special purpose and is in a dark room playing with himself. Soooooooo, what part of burn this place to the fuc$&*@#(&$*(ing ground do the rest of you nay sayers not understand now?
Don't even tease him, he just found out about his special purpose and is in a dark room playing with himself. Soooooooo, what part of burn this place to the fuc$&*@#(&$*(ing ground do the rest of you nay sayers not understand now?
WabiSabi
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Posts
- 437
Now you've done it! You've taunted the FlightInfo.com Village Idiot. Now prepare to be immersed in more stupidity.
I must admit, it was sometimes entertaining to read his posts just because they were 180 degrees opposite reality. However, I've had my fill and will continue to leave him on ignore status.
Last edited:
SilverSurfer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2007
- Posts
- 305
All the talk about self help and a strike
I have seen lots and heard lots about mediation and it the first step to self help. You guys that are thinking that this is the road to a strike are right but you and many others a Floptions are missing a very big, very important point.
We don't need to strike. In fact in this business we can be much more effective and be much more "persuasive to management" not striking and remaining on duty.
A Strike
The purpose of a strike is to shut the company down by the aircraft not moving. Will this put pressure on management? Yes no doubt. but what are the down sides of a strike? First and foremost we will not be receiving a pay check and we will all be paying cobra for our health insurance. We may have to face management replacing us as we do not have a contract right now. These and other things that will have a very negative effect on each of us and our families.
A more effective strike.
As pilots each of us have the power to decide if a aircraft flys on any given day. The ink pen that resides in your shirt pocket right next to our new ridiculous gay looking wings and the authority that is given to you by the license in you wallet and the FAA, provide you with the tools to effect the same result as a strike. The big difference is while you are exercising this action, you will continue to receive a pay check and benefits. Now not only are the jets not moving but management still is carrying the expense of our labor cost. A double whammy.
Some will say that this is an illegal job action. Bullsh!t. The only thing that would make it illegal is if you were writing up erroneous squawks. There is nothing illegal about doing a preflight wit a magnifying glass and using it will have the same effect on management as strike.
Think about it.
If we had the majority of our pilots, the same percentage that would honor a strike, understand these very simple facts, we might already have a contract. Instead we still have pilots carrying known discrepancies, working OT, over duty day, going the "extra mile" to suck managements a$$. If you are a supporter of the hard work that our union negotiators are doing then its time to look at the pilots that are not flying the pledge as SCABS and treating them as such. If a strike were ever called it is these same pilots that will cross the line so you may as well recognize them for what they are now, SCABS .
The sooner that our pilots understand this and make the pledge their mantra, the sooner that management will have no recourse but to negotiate and to step up to the bar with a industry standard contract.
Fly The Pledge,,,,, and start today.
I have seen lots and heard lots about mediation and it the first step to self help. You guys that are thinking that this is the road to a strike are right but you and many others a Floptions are missing a very big, very important point.
We don't need to strike. In fact in this business we can be much more effective and be much more "persuasive to management" not striking and remaining on duty.
A Strike
The purpose of a strike is to shut the company down by the aircraft not moving. Will this put pressure on management? Yes no doubt. but what are the down sides of a strike? First and foremost we will not be receiving a pay check and we will all be paying cobra for our health insurance. We may have to face management replacing us as we do not have a contract right now. These and other things that will have a very negative effect on each of us and our families.
A more effective strike.
As pilots each of us have the power to decide if a aircraft flys on any given day. The ink pen that resides in your shirt pocket right next to our new ridiculous gay looking wings and the authority that is given to you by the license in you wallet and the FAA, provide you with the tools to effect the same result as a strike. The big difference is while you are exercising this action, you will continue to receive a pay check and benefits. Now not only are the jets not moving but management still is carrying the expense of our labor cost. A double whammy.
Some will say that this is an illegal job action. Bullsh!t. The only thing that would make it illegal is if you were writing up erroneous squawks. There is nothing illegal about doing a preflight wit a magnifying glass and using it will have the same effect on management as strike.
Think about it.
If we had the majority of our pilots, the same percentage that would honor a strike, understand these very simple facts, we might already have a contract. Instead we still have pilots carrying known discrepancies, working OT, over duty day, going the "extra mile" to suck managements a$$. If you are a supporter of the hard work that our union negotiators are doing then its time to look at the pilots that are not flying the pledge as SCABS and treating them as such. If a strike were ever called it is these same pilots that will cross the line so you may as well recognize them for what they are now, SCABS .
The sooner that our pilots understand this and make the pledge their mantra, the sooner that management will have no recourse but to negotiate and to step up to the bar with a industry standard contract.
Fly The Pledge,,,,, and start today.
jetwash
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Just follow the rules and regulations don't do anything illegal for or against the company.
Time to tell those pilots who fly above FL350 without the oxygen mask on to either put it on and wear it or FLY AT OR BELOW FL350!!!!!!!
Look at Flight aware and you will still see guys at FL400 for 2 hours and I am willing to bet they don't have their O2 masks on
Just follow the rules and regulations !!!!!!!
They are there for your safety !!!!
Time to tell those pilots who fly above FL350 without the oxygen mask on to either put it on and wear it or FLY AT OR BELOW FL350!!!!!!!
Look at Flight aware and you will still see guys at FL400 for 2 hours and I am willing to bet they don't have their O2 masks on
Just follow the rules and regulations !!!!!!!
They are there for your safety !!!!
skyismyoffice
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Look at Flight aware and you will still see guys at FL400 for 2 hours and I am willing to bet they don't have their O2 masks on
They might be empty. I have been seeing lots of 2+ hour repo legs lately. Seems like lots of planes are in mx??
glasspilot
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glasspilot
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Ever read the O2 requirements in the FARs? I bet not
glasspilot
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Okay, I take the bet and you lose.
My post was not to say there isn't a reg about flying above FL350 with one crew member wearing a mask. My point is it takes a real tool with nothing better to do to actually go into flightaware and try to find evil doers and rat them out...with a little frowny face to boot!
By the way, just cause your at FL400 on a 15 hour flight doesn't mean your breaking any reg. You can fly wearing a mask WITHOUT the O2 on if it automatically delivers O2 when cabin goes above 10,000 ft. MSL.
Take your bets to Vegas, use knowledge and facts here.
Fly Safe.
jetwash
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Glasspilot,
Take a downer dude and relax....
( 3 posts in a few hours obsessing over a )
You are reading too much into my post and letting you imagination run wild thereby, missing the message I was trying to add to SilverSurfers post regarding following the rules and regulations to put the contract issue behind us.
I would try to explain it you in other terms but it would involve more
and I would not want you to start :crying: and have everyone :laugh: at you for being such a 
uke:
Seek treatment for your obsession
Take a downer dude and relax....
( 3 posts in a few hours obsessing over a
)You are reading too much into my post and letting you imagination run wild thereby, missing the message I was trying to add to SilverSurfers post regarding following the rules and regulations to put the contract issue behind us.
I would try to explain it you in other terms but it would involve more
and I would not want you to start :crying: and have everyone :laugh: at you for being such a uke:Seek treatment for your obsession
glasspilot
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Okay fine, guess I'm the goofball for NOT going on flightaware looking for people above 350 too long.
I'll start spending my days trying to do the FAA's job and scour the universe for FAR violators.
Can't believe I'm the only person who thinks it's crazy to log onto flightaware for the purpose of finding aircraft above FL350 for longer than their O2 supply should allow. What's next? Calling all the FBO at destination and demanding to know if the O2 was serviced? Perhaps you could then self disclose to the FAA so a formal investigation could be launched and the pilots tickets yanked as a result.
Yeah, I'm the crazy one here
I'll start spending my days trying to do the FAA's job and scour the universe for FAR violators.
Can't believe I'm the only person who thinks it's crazy to log onto flightaware for the purpose of finding aircraft above FL350 for longer than their O2 supply should allow. What's next? Calling all the FBO at destination and demanding to know if the O2 was serviced? Perhaps you could then self disclose to the FAA so a formal investigation could be launched and the pilots tickets yanked as a result.
Yeah, I'm the crazy one here
realityman
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Sounds a little crazy to me too. I can't speak for other fleets, but in the X, the mask is a diluter demand type.
So we can select the 'Normal" position that uses a mix of cabin air and O2 based on the cabin altitude.
With the mask in "Normal" I can fly around for a very long time (longer than the aircraft could actually stay in the air) without totally exhausting the O2 tank. It still uses O2, so the tank would need to be serviced periodically, but actually run out of O2? Not likely.
That's what makes it such a nice way to fly legally. The tank will need serviced wherever (maybe slowing ops down a bit hint hint) but you'll have plenty of O2 to be legal and SAFE.
So we can select the 'Normal" position that uses a mix of cabin air and O2 based on the cabin altitude.
With the mask in "Normal" I can fly around for a very long time (longer than the aircraft could actually stay in the air) without totally exhausting the O2 tank. It still uses O2, so the tank would need to be serviced periodically, but actually run out of O2? Not likely.
That's what makes it such a nice way to fly legally. The tank will need serviced wherever (maybe slowing ops down a bit hint hint) but you'll have plenty of O2 to be legal and SAFE.
netjetwife
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Thanks for posting the MEC report Silver. I read every word with interest. Quote: "You can readily see the dramatic degree to which Flight Options pilots’ pay lags behind that of our peers at other fractional carriers, not only because we are paid less per workday, but because we also work more days per year than most other fractional pilots and often “slide to poverty” when changing aircraft or status. The daily rate charts for the Mid and Large Cabin Fleets, which are not shown, portray similarly dismal results".
That's why I describe the Options pilots as overworked/underpaid... There's no excuse for it! That huge discrepancy is proof that their management not only approves of exploitation, but is making it part of their operations plan. NO Options pilot should condone such behavior. By dragging their feet at the bargaining table management is showing their lack of respect and regard for the pilots and their families. That fact alone should make every Options pilot pledge his support to his Union/fellow pilots.
Ignore the red herrings and keep your eye on the goal of an industry standard contract. When they see that their FUD isn't working, they'll stop trying to reproduce their present exploitative policies and get serious about hammering out a real contract. When they figure out that crumbs aren't getting them the full cooperation they need, they will offer professional wages. Show them the error of their ways!
A few words of encouragement....
http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=190794570&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999
OPTIONS PILOTS HOLD THE HIGH GROUND. MANAGEMENT'S DELAY TACTICS DESERVE THE BOOT!
A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS, BUT PADDLING IS REQUIRED. COMBINED EFFORTS WORK BEST.
That's why I describe the Options pilots as overworked/underpaid...
There's no excuse for it! That huge discrepancy is proof that their management not only approves of exploitation, but is making it part of their operations plan. NO Options pilot should condone such behavior. By dragging their feet at the bargaining table management is showing their lack of respect and regard for the pilots and their families. That fact alone should make every Options pilot pledge his support to his Union/fellow pilots. Ignore the red herrings and keep your eye on the goal of an industry standard contract. When they see that their FUD isn't working, they'll stop trying to reproduce their present exploitative policies and get serious about hammering out a real contract. When they figure out that crumbs aren't getting them the full cooperation they need, they will offer professional wages. Show them the error of their ways!
A few words of encouragement....
http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=190794570&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999
OPTIONS PILOTS HOLD THE HIGH GROUND. MANAGEMENT'S DELAY TACTICS DESERVE THE BOOT!
A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS, BUT PADDLING IS REQUIRED. COMBINED EFFORTS WORK BEST.
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glasspilot
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