Flops pay vs. the economy excuse

[FLSTCI]

993, glad you took the time to read the contract and dissect some of the areas of concern. You make some cogent points and I think that the pilot group as a whole has very real concerns about what is and what is not contained in this TA. Choose wisely!

 

[fly4funcrj]

Flops = MESA?

 

[steelersrule74]

I don't have a dog in this fight so i've held back from commenting on the specifics of the TA. That is clearly a personal decision for each FLOPS pilot to make on their own. I will comment though regarding duration that in my opinion previous posts are accurate. If your management team can option this out to 5 years, it is entirely possible you will be working under this agreement for several years beyond. If an agreement that gives your company a significant advantage over labor costs is adopted - I'm not sure how motivated they would be to revisit the issue in a timely manner.

 

[jetwash]

If there is "No" vote and it goes back and then the only thing changed in the TA is the duration from 5 to 3 years as most pilots want.

We would probably lose another year negotiating it but it could get us back to the table a year earlier than if we accept this TA with the 5 year duration.

Extend the negotiation at this end another year to cut the duration 2 years.

Something to think about.

 

[993_Pilot]

If there is "No" vote and it goes back and then the only thing changed in the TA is the duration from 5 to 3 years as most pilots want.

We would probably lose another year negotiating it but it could get us back to the table a year earlier than if we accept this TA with the 5 year duration.

Extend the negotiation at this end another year to cut the duration 2 years.

Something to think about.

We don't even necessarily have to extend anything on this end. Make no mistake, both management and the union watch these boards every day. If enough people speak up and voice their concerns over duration, and they realize that shortening it is the key to making it pass, they could amend the TA before it gets voted on... then we'd be back to the table 2-3 years earlier! That might actually be worth a yes vote.

 

[ls8]

If contract duration is the issue, then the negotiations should be about a specific date and not a duration, so that it is not in managements interest to delay the negotiations.

To take the emotion out of the negotiations, if management is saying that lower pay is due to the economy and/or Options' financial position, then the pilots should be given equity just as any other investor receives. This is simple, fair, and again removes managements incentive to screw the union and makes it a simple business decision for the company.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Life under the current TA

Make no mistake that this Contract will be a total of probably 7 or more years.

Think About it

 

[993_Pilot]

Make no mistake that this Contract will be a total of probably 7 or more years.

Think About it

Exactly why I'm voting NO. If the SPP gave permanent increases to the base pay, maybe, but as it stands, this is a joke. I keep hoping that I'll wake up soon and realize that this was all a bad dream.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Silver Surfer: This is very similar to profit sharing and companies that have a profit sharing program release the information on which the profit is measured.

BTDI: Exactly. Just ask my good buddy Wacoflyer.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Flops = MESA?

Pretty much Flops=mesa=bankrupcty

or Flops=Alaska=more furloughs

 

[ProFracPilot]

Make no mistake that this Contract will be a total of probably 7 or more years.

Think About it

I have thought about it. I'm not sure how you get to 7 or even more years, but for the sake of argument, I'll go with you on this.

If we vote this thing down the next TA is a year away (6 months of cooling off, then negotiations begin again - a year will be minimum). In that time, not only will we NOT have the decent work rules and protections afforded us by the TA now on the table, we'll also be moving backwards in real income. Furloughees will be losing recall rights. Flight Options business will likely suffer due to the continued labor unrest (more furloughs??). Then, if somehow we're offered a TA that is limited to 3 years (which is highly unlikely - there's no support from the company or the mediator for this) and it gets ratified, we're now at roughly 4 years from today. If we negotiate now for what little extra might be gained with another year of bargaining, the company will have no interest in negotiating in a timely manner when the contract becomes amendable. So, by the time we get the contract amended, we could be right back to your 7 year time frame - only now we will have lost the work protections and income from year 1. Assuming we still have jobs, the time-value of money tells me we'll never get that income back.

I'm guessing you and 993 have an awesome Plan "B" awaiting you outside FlOps. Maybe you're both fortunate enough to be collecting military retirement or are living on a trust fund. For the majority of the pilots in this company, given the current state of job prospects, this TA is welcome. Again, it is not perfect, but welcome.

 

[dime line]

Didn't AirTran vote down their 1st TA, and didn't it take another 3 more years to finally have a contract to vote on?

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Part of ALPA press release

Didn't AirTran vote down their 1st TA, and didn't it take another 3 more years to finally have a contract to vote on?

ATLANTA – While AirTran employees have contributed to the success of AirTran Airways through hard work and sacrifice, the pilots—represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA)—have not shared in the rewards for over five years. Currently, AirTran pilots are paid up to 26 percent below the industry average and have been in mediated negotiations with management since their contract became amendable in 2005.

I think it was in 2007 that they voted down the first TA

 

[dime line]

ATLANTA – While AirTran employees have contributed to the success of AirTran Airways through hard work and sacrifice, the pilots—represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA)—have not shared in the rewards for over five years. Currently, AirTran pilots are paid up to 26 percent below the industry average and have been in mediated negotiations with management since their contract became amendable in 2005.

I think it was in 2007 that they voted down the first TA

Do you know if they have a contract yet? Do you know when in 2007 they voted it down?

 

[SilverSurfer]

Exactly why I'm voting NO. If the SPP gave permanent increases to the base pay, maybe, but as it stands, this is a joke. I keep hoping that I'll wake up soon and realize that this was all a bad dream.

Hey bro the SSP has a benchmark based on 2006 & 2007 company activity. Any one that thinks we will ever receive a cent form this is fooling themselves. The SSP is nothing but smoke and mirrors.