Flops pay vs. the economy excuse

[993_Pilot]

Does any one here actually think that Flops offered their customers rebates on their contracts because the economy is bad?... How about NJ, Flex or CitationAir?... I sure don't. Sure, the market is down due to the economy, but the the product/service of Private Jet flying costs what it costs, so less people can afford, or are willing to afford it in this economy, hence the furloughs. They were probably necessary when they happened and I truly feel badly for all those affected, along with their families. It was unfortunate, but accepting less pay is not going to change that. Going forward, Flops needs to compete with these other companies, and those companies all pay their pilots substantially more than Flops management is offering in this TA. Although I don't think I should have to subsidize Mr. Moneybag's cost to fly, a contract with good work rules has value, and I am willing to accept slightly less pay than the competition in order to help Flops gain a competitive advantage and market share, so we can all have more job security and hopefully bring back some of our furloughed brothers and sisters. 10% less should be plenty, and I would then be happy to let them use the economy as their excuse. If Flops management can't find a way to be competitive with a labor cost that is 10% less than their competition, then I have no faith in the management team and no long term hope for the company anyways!!! Just my 2 cents.

 

[Hobbes]

Very well spoken. How is a lower paid pilot group going to help Flops sell more shares? Really? It is a convenient fact for management and those that want the TA to pass that the economy is tanking, but the salient point you make is that if mgmt can't make the business model work with 10% less pay (BTW - don't forget the lower staffing rations TOO, COMPOUNDING their savings. Doesn't NJA have like 5 pilots per plane? That is 25% more salary right there vs. the TA 4 pilots per plane) then, either:

They should not be managing the company OR

The company should go under.

Accepting a bargain basement contract will be the quickest way to be a bargain basement pilot.

 

[Hobbes]

To expand on the point I made in parentheses above.

If NJA has 5 pilots per plane and FLops has 4, and Flops pays those 4 pilots 10% less on average, then they are not just saving 10%, but 28% less than the salary load of NJA. If you can't make the business work then, you shouldn't be in business. Come on man!

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Accepting a bargain basement contract will be the quickest way to be a bargain basement pilot.


LOLOLOL

 

[993_Pilot]

Hobbs, you make a good point. 10% less salary is just a start.
NJ has higher crewing ratios as you stated. They also have higher % of 7/7, better day 1 airline overrides, >12 hr. duty day overrides, etc. I think Shares has 100% of their guys on a 7/7! I would be willing to forego some of these things on our first contract and live with most of those rules as written in this TA to help give Flops a competitive edge. They also have better/cheaper insurance, better sick time, 401k match too, but I think we deserve some of that at Flops. With these things in mind, I'll modify my ending statement in my OP...

If Flops management needs a 40+% labor cost advantage over their competition to be competitive, then I have no faith in the management team and no long term hope for the company anyways!!!

Would any of you have faith in a management team that needs this kind of advantage to be competitive? Personally, I think that they just want it so they can line their own pockets.

This negotiation is basically just a big game of chicken. They have worn us down over 4 years, and they are just hoping that we'll jump at the first bone they throw us. I don't know about the rest of you, but I won't. I say lets put this one to bed with a strong "NO" vote and send management a message that we deserve more, and won't ratify a TA until it is worthy.

 

[The Kman]

In regards to pay. If after nearly 4 years of negotiations, a 10% raise is brought to the table and the union accepts this as a reasonable offer. There must have been other offers slid across the table. I guess those offers were less than 10% or possibly a pay cut? I say vote it down. Go back to the table. With regards to pay, I cannot see this as industry standard and cannot be blamed on the poor economy when the business models of the other fractionals allow for a competitive wage.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Do the math

We need someone that has good math skills to decipher this formula.

CR=(FO*FOhrs+FF*FFhrs+JP*JPhrs)/SUM(FOhrs,FFhrs,JPhrs)+(MF*(FOhrs+FFhrs))/SUM(FOhrs,FFhrs,JPhrs)

 

[HazMat]

you guys are right about it being a competitive edge. if this holds up Flight Options will have far lower operating costs than most. It will be hard for a Netjets etc to sell something at a 30 percent premium. I cant see anyone making the arguement that Netjets pilots are better than Flight Options pilots they are just being paid better. It will certainly make it harder for others to compete when Options will be able to sell their service for far less. Be interesting to see what happens in the future if this holds up

 

[jetwash]

Look at some of FLOPS aircraft pricing. It is almost 30% lower then the others for the same class of aircraft.
That is why they want the pilots pay to be 30%lower as well.

Have they not realized that you need happy motivated employees to grow your company? They surly won't get it with this TA.

 

[993_Pilot]

We need someone that has good math skills to decipher this formula.

CR=(FO*FOhrs+FF*FFhrs+JP*JPhrs)/SUM(FOhrs,FFhrs,JPhrs)+(MF*(FOhrs+FFhrs))/SUM(FOhrs,FFhrs,JPhrs)

Too confusing for me!