FLOPS latest BEND-OVER PGM

[Grim Reaper]

Dear Flight Options Crewmember



Safety is job ONE. Hey silly boy, Safety rests with the crew. No matter what the company does, the crew is the linchpin to safety. Enough of this 135, SimuFlite, SOP CRAP making things saver without any mention of the contribution and obligation of the crew.



Service is a crew issue. The crew is the last defense against bad service. Looks like plane side manner is supposed to help. What the He!! is plan side manner?



Profitability on the backs of the crewmembers mostly and employees to some degree.



Domicile Program equals move or quit.



Crew Meals equals buy your own kinda like the last days of RTA.



Schedule equals call ya when we need ya. No more planning your time off with the family.



Crew Expense equals no more tips from me and I will not take a cab unless arrange by dispatch to the local cab company in the area I am located in. Sorry Mr. Owner. The Company could not find me a cab and was not gonna walk to the airport.



Hotels equals cheap. Lookout for the CRACK HEADS. Get a concealed carry permit.



Fuel Burn equals go slow and screw the owner. Why were you late for the recovery trip? Sorry Kmart Clerk now dipatcher, had to go slow, it’s the policy.



Waste Management equals on the backs of the crewmembers.



Best regards,



The Management Team

 

[RawData]

wannab

You obviously are a "wanna be". 'cause u ain't got the big picture or any picture sonny.

 

[guido411]

I'm not sure i see the problem here. the changes seem painless. remember you guys arent making money hand over fist right now. the goal is for FO to be profitable, not to have crew meals and unlimited domiciles. remember 99% of corporate pilots dont have crew meals, that shouldnt be a huge sacrifice. the fbo's know where to get good food fast. you still have a huge number of domiciles. more than any airline or fractional or any corporation that i know. theyre just trying to turn a profit over there and if they dont all this arguing is a moot point b/c FO will be no more and you guys will be on the street. not trying to start an argument, but just telling like i see it from an outsiders point of view. .

Wannabe, 99% of corporate pilots don't have to live off of a per diem, they get company credit cards to put their meals on. We get something like $42 per day to spend on meals. Have you ever noticed that a breakfast at most places costs over $10 by the time you have coffee and tip? Down to $30 now. Two more meals to go. Sure we can eat fruit at the hotels continental breakfast, but did you ever eat so much fruit your fart smelled like melon? (See "You might be a FLOPS pilot if. . ."thread) You're right, we're not making money hand over fist here, but being able to live literally ANYWHERE you want is worth another $10,000 in concession to most pilots. Do yourself a favor and keep seeing it from an "outsider's point of view."

 

[Frac Daddy]

Where are the 60 out of 100 going to go?

Well, probably to the same places that the 30 that left last month went....Gemini, JBLU, AWA, SWA, various Part 91 jobs.

 

[waka]

I'm not sure i see the problem here. the changes seem painless. remember you guys arent making money hand over fist right now. the goal is for FO to be profitable, not to have crew meals and unlimited domiciles. remember 99% of corporate pilots dont have crew meals, that shouldnt be a huge sacrifice. the fbo's know where to get good food fast. you still have a huge number of domiciles. more than any airline or fractional or any corporation that i know. theyre just trying to turn a profit over there and if they dont all this arguing is a moot point b/c FO will be no more and you guys will be on the street. not trying to start an argument, but just telling like i see it from an outsiders point of view. .

You forget....we're not corporate pilots. We don't get 2 weeks notice for a 2 day trip. And many of the bigger corporate flight departments give their pilots a credit card for expenses including meals. Our crew meals are a convienience to the company. They're provided so that we can fly through meal times because the schedule is constantly changing....even enroute. Otherwise we take 2 hours of their precious duty time so we can eat.

They're doing this to attain profitability? BA HA HA HA HA! Pissed off pilots aren't good for "profitability".

 

[cezzna]

99% of corporate pilots can eat wherever and whatever they want with no spending limits. The only time I eat crew meals is when the schedule of the day requires it. I know when it is going to happen and order a quality meal well ahead of time. And, as the last guy said, free hotel breakfasts suck big time. I pass up free crap breakfasts all the time just to find quality food.

This is the problem in aviation, if it isn't profitable raise the rates!! Instead they wanna f--k the employees. When the local gas or electric company stops being profitable they just jack up the rates until things work agian. Look at that Comair pilot pay raise freeze they will save 20 million a year but Delta is losing 2 billion a year. So this will stop 1% of their bleeding. It's like showing up at a fire with a squirt gun.

I'm starting to think the only thing that may save this industry is re-regulation

 

[Grim Reaper]

Another poster said it best, "This is Crap work for Crap Pay." Stay here if ya want. I'm outta here as soon as possilbe. Why, because by the time of the union vote, all this bad for the pilots stuff will be in place and status quo. Very Pi$$ poor position for the first MEC. YES!???

 

[Ticker]

We asked for it...

We had a chance to get some sort of representation just before the merger (at least those who were coming from RTA). But no, things weren't bad enough. We've had over three years since then to get some sort of representation, but no, things still weren't bad enough. At least 50% + 1 of us are getting exactly what we asked for.

Pucker up butter cup! Kool aid all around!!

 

[Tommy Boy]

I'm not sure i see the problem here. the changes seem painless. remember you guys arent making money hand over fist right now. the goal is for FO to be profitable, not to have crew meals and unlimited domiciles. remember 99% of corporate pilots dont have crew meals, that shouldnt be a huge sacrifice. the fbo's know where to get good food fast. you still have a huge number of domiciles. more than any airline or fractional or any corporation that i know. theyre just trying to turn a profit over there and if they dont all this arguing is a moot point b/c FO will be no more and you guys will be on the street. not trying to start an argument, but just telling like i see it from an outsiders point of view. .

You are right, we aren't making ANY money. One owner told me he pays his limo driver more than the company pays me. The only reason we took less pay was the benefits...schedule, live where you want, fed all the time, decent duty days...

Well that all is gone, they are taking away the domiciles. They are changing the schedules. And don't think that the latest edition is the last. We have experience with these guys. They take a little at a time, let people get used to it then take more. There will only be Tier 1 airports remaining, there will only be a flex schedule remaining, there will be no more food unless you pay for it, there will be minimum rest everynight and you WILL have to fight for even that. We already are expected to fly from 0500 till 1400 with no food because the legs were empty or they just didn't order you anything.

And have you looked at the tier 1 airports? They say they chose them because of cost of travel. But many of the major stopping points are not on there. How many of us fly to/from klax or ksfo or kphx or klas or kslc or kpbi (just to name a few) on a regular basis. However none of those are on the list. kcle however is.....imagine that! And I don't think I have ever flown to kstl, or kmci to pick up aircraft.

And the pay scale has been SHRINKING a little at a time.

Don't compare us to coporate. A corporate job gets paid at LEAST 20k more a year. A corporate job gives you company credit card to eat on....whenever you are hungry. A corporate job gives you plenty of rest. A corporate job only flies an average of 300-400hrs a year. We do at least 500hrs. A corporate pilot is home most nights. We spend more nights in hotels than we do our homes.

Bottom line is this place is finished. Raytheon is the typical evil greedy screw its employees to make an extra .50 this quarter with no look at the future. It is no longer worth our time.

GET OUT!! There ARE better jobs out there.

 

[wannab0133]

do the owners at flops or netjets know the payscales for pilots? i know when i flew charter back in the day, the passengers thought we were making 200k flying them around in king airs. when we told them what we were actually making they looked at me like he was glad to be alive. some people would crap in their pants if they knew the fo of their falcon 2000 was getting paid less than 30k a year.

 

[leardawg]

We had a chance to get some sort of representation just before the merger (at least those who were coming from RTA). But no, things weren't bad enough. We've had over three years since then to get some sort of representation, but no, things still weren't bad enough. At least 50% + 1 of us are getting exactly what we asked for.

Pucker up butter cup! Kool aid all around!!

You're right on that account, but it's all water under the bridge now. Many who did not support unionizing had a problem with the idea of joining the teamsters, (including myself), rather than with the concept of joining a union per se. It was the only option presented to us. We were hoping that something better would come along, and were waiting to see what the IBT did for Netjets before commiting to them. Keep in mind we've had change of leadership 3 times in the past 2 years, each bringing with it a change of style and promises. I know, you can argue we were naive, but the concerns were legitimate. The question now is, where do we go from here? There seem to be 2 categories of Flight Options pilots now; those who are going to leave at the first decent opportunity, and those who will stick it out in the hope of changing the status quo (plus the few so-called kool-aid drinkers who are laughing it up right now). I'm convinced there will be a union before long, but the results won't be evident for a few years. Each pilot has to make a personal decision as to whether it is worth sticking it out. I have decided it isn't worth it for me, and will be gone at the first decent opportunity. It's a shame, because I really thought at first that this is where I would park my career. The company is evidently no longer committed to attracting and keeping the best pilots in the industry. I only hope the owners realize what impact the current changes will have, in the long run, on the quality of the product they are paying for. I suspect they would be willing to pay a little more to ensure they have the best transportation their money can buy!

 

[Grim Reaper]

Pays the limo driver more and do the owners know what we're making. Heard this $hit before. The owners do not care what we, the pilots, are paid. The owner only cares about what it cost to buy in and the monthly management fees.

The owner pays Flight Options, NJA, CS, Flex to take him where he wants to go. He pays these companies to worry about the details. What the pilots are paid is not his concern so he does not care. He is not worried about whether you are on food stamps or not. Remember, these guys are business men are keeping cost down are a major part of theirs lives. Again, the owner is worried about his check book, not yours.

 

[leardawg]

I was privy to a converstation, second-hand, that an owner had with one of our captains. The owner's position was that "Flight Options' management just doesn't get it." His attitude was that money was not a problem with our owners. The problems stem from not getting the service they expect for what they are paying. He stated that "they think that announcing they are saving money by cutting this and that matters to us. What we want is service, and that is where Flight Options is missing the mark." Our owners are, according to this individual, not "nickel and dimers." I don't know if this attitude is prevalent among the owners, but is an interesting and revealing observation. I wish there was a way the owners could weigh in on the changes that are taking place. We might be surprised by their take on the situation (or disappointed).

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

do the owners at flops or netjets know the payscales for pilots?

They have no idea. One owner offered me a $50 tip. I gracefully took it, and he said, "It's not much, but it's enough for dinner tonight." I thanked him very much and said any little bit helps. To that he replied, "Well, it's not much compared to your salary, yadda, yadda, yadda." I quit listening after that remark. This particular owner is one I've flown many times on the west coast, and four times that week, so I felt comfortable asking him what he meant by "it's not much compared to your salary." He then told me the salesman who sold him his share told him ALL Options pilots make six figures each year, so you don't need to tip them. I laughed a little, and he asked if that was accurate. I told him I'd be happy making half of something six figures. He was very surprised to say the least. He thought we were taken care of by our company. Very sadly mistaken.....

 

[Grim Reaper]

All the owner stuff is the same thing we heard during the first RTA organization campagin. The RTA guys certainly remember this same story but it was told by a Beech Jet guy transporting an owner into Eagle. Say what ya want about what the owner thinks and what the salesman tells them. The owner is worried about his check book, not yours. The owner is concerned about getting the best deal he can for the best price he can. Just like when you buy a big ticket item.

 

[leardawg]

It's the owners that ultimately drive this company. I do really think that if they were aware of the issues at hand, they just might insist that management change it's course. Maybe I'm being supremely naive, but maybe not. I don't know how one gets the word out, or if they're already aware. But I've got to believe that they, more than most, realize the axiom that "you get what you pay for." If they realize that management is in effect greatly de-valuing each dollar they pay for this service, they just might be a little bit upset. Of course, their solution might just be to switch to Netjets or Flex, or charter, or buy their own aircraft. This is what will ultimately result in the demise of Flight Options, if it eventually becomes extinct. Management will never change it's cherised notions until and if the owners put their foot down. I feel this is the only action that will ultimately prevent the company from going under. It may already be too late to prevent it.

 

[leardawg]

One more point, and then I'll shut up and go to bed. Our owners will never go back to flying the airlines like sardines in a can, subject to layovers with slobs like you and me, delays and cancellations, if there is anything they can do to prevent it. They still have lots of options, but my point is they are willing to spend what it takes for the convenience.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Still better to LEAVE then be represented by a trucker's union of thugs.
.

That would be the thugs representing me so that I can't be forced or coerced to violate the 135 Duty and Rest rules... unlike the policy I saw on someone's Blackberry at the TEB Hilton the other night.

 

[jetwash]

I am sure operating costs will be going up in MX, deicing fluid, fuel, etc.

After all SAFETY IS FIRST as the letter says so Management should have no problem with us spending Extra money just to be sure that everything is SAFE and delaying the owners just to make sure that every i is dotted and every t is crossed and every Reg is met to provide them with the best flying experience they expect.

So when you fly don't forget ------SAFETY over COST ----- always!!!! Spend as much as you need to provide a safe trip to your Pax and more importantly for yourself since it now seems that nobody in management cares about what happens to you and your family.

 

[Dr. B]

Owner Campaign

I believe the only people that can influence management is the owners. We should find a covert way to inform as many owners that we the pilots, as a whole, are slowly being stripped of all of the perks that formerly made us happy and willing to work at Options. Perhaps a well written, anonymous letter that could be handed out to pax instead of that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed comment card. A letter that lets owners know that they can expect an even lower quality of service and subpar effort from the pilots, the workhorses of the company. Once management starts hearing from owners who know what might happen. Could start an interesting war.

 

[fogrunner]

here is a quote from VR from a few days ago!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am sure you realize that most pilots everywhere in the industry are b*tching right now no matter where they work. The problem at FLOPS is that the rumor mill tends to lend itself to more doom & gloom than really exists.


hmmmmm...........


So, I guess in light of the recent announcements from the professional management team of Flight Options everything is going to be a okay.

Sorry for the sarcasm guys. I have many friends at Options and it grieves me to see them treated this poorly. Unfortunately there are individuals over there who have had their proverbial head stuck in the sand for some time.........

 

[Grim Reaper]

Perhaps you should ask the pilots of NJA if their very large body of owners have over powered the company phone system offering to pay high rates because of worry over pilot compensation issues within that organization.

 

[AeroBoy]

Grim,

I'm sure the phones will begin lighting up once the NetJets pilots start informational picketing at some FBOs next month.

 

[Grizz]

Grim,

The RLA puts a huge amount of power in management's hands during contract negotiations. They can stall, obstruct and basically make no effort at all to pursue a fair contract. Add to that fact that the previous MEC and leadership at 284 felt that playing patty cake with these guys was the way to go and you easily see how we got where we are.

It is only at the end of the game that a union operating under the RLA has any real power. The pilots at NetJets are only now getting to the end of the game where we can exert pressure on the company. We also have a MEC that is committed to using any and all legal means at our disposal to force a fair contract from NetJets. This summer will let us all know if this industry can transition to become a career or if it is going to be forever stuck as a place for CFIs to build turbine time so they can move on.

 

[leardawg]

Grim,

The RLA puts a huge amount of power in management's hands during contract negotiations. They can stall, obstruct and basically make no effort at all to pursue a fair contract. Add to that fact that the previous MEC and leadership at 284 felt that playing patty cake with these guys was the way to go and you easily see how we got where we are.

It is only at the end of the game that a union operating under the RLA has any real power. The pilots at NetJets are only now getting to the end of the game where we can exert pressure on the company. We also have a MEC that is committed to using any and all legal means at our disposal to force a fair contract from NetJets. This summer will let us all know if this industry can transition to become a career or if it is going to be forever stuck as a place for CFIs to build turbine time so they can move on.(QUOTE).

This is the core of where the owners come in. If the current trend continues, the fractionals will become a time-building job for inexperienced pilots, instead of a place where experienced, mature pilots park their career. The owners have to be made aware of this turn of events, and decide if this is the way they want to go. We all came into this job with the benefit of past experience, whether it be flying freight, charter, military, airlines, corporate, etc. We all cut our teeth at these jobs, learned from past mistakes, scared the s**t out of ourselves a couple of times, and are better pilots for it. I'm positive the owners would be rather alarmed at the notion of being flown around by the least experienced pilots in the industry, learning from (and hopefully surviving) their mistakes with owners and their families on board. No offense to these guys, as we were all in their position once, and would have jumped at the chance for this kind of job (even without any perks or benefits). The owners are paying for the most expeditious and SAFEST transportation their money can buy. The way things are going, they will not have the benefit of my experience, ability, and wisdom, nor of, I suspect, many other pilots. Too bad. I wish them the best of luck, but I will not have my services sold cheaply, nor be abused for the privilege of driving them around!They can get what Flight Options is able and willing to give them and/or what they are willing to pay for. It's their company (which is why they are called Owners); let them do something about it. Otherwise, they can take their chances with low-time, relatively inexperienced pilots, or buy their own airplane and pay me NBAA scale to fly them. (And there is always :"Would you like another bag of peanuts with your water, sir and ma'am?).