Flight Training Options

[DboneVT]

I'm just about 25 and have decided that corporate America just isn't for me. I'm ready to make the change, now I just have to decide where to go.

Two schools that have caught my attention are American Flyers (various locations) and Aviation Training Unlimited in Kansas City. AF because they have a program that exposes you to more of the business side of aviation. ATU because it's so different, it could actually work.

As I looked back through the last 30 days of posts, I saw nothing on either of these schools. AF seems like a pretty big operation, and ATU is one school run by a guy named Dr Bill Bell. He does things a little differently than most, but he seems a little suspicious.

By reading the last 30 days of posts, it would seem to a newbie that an airline sponsored school is THE ONLY way to go.

Any insight on either of these schools would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[alimaui]

I'm just about 25 and have decided that corporate America just isn't for me. I'm ready to make the change, now I just have to decide where to go.



By reading the last 30 days of posts, it would seem to a newbie that an airline sponsored school is THE ONLY way to go.

Any insight on either of these schools would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

First of all, if you expect to get a worthwhile response you might try asking specific questions. "Insight" can be found by using the search button at the top of the page.

Secondly, corporate america does not seem too bad if you look at the current state of the airline and flying industry in general. To be blunt, after the ship starts sinking, the smart ones jump off the boat and not on.

Ali

 

[DboneVT]

follow up

That was my first post, so I'll try to be more precise in what I'm looking for in the future.

My specific questions are:

1. Does anybody have ANY info (good or bad) about ATU and Dr Bell or AF? American Flyers says that it has graduated more pilots than any other school, yet I couldn't find one post about them.

2. Do you have to go to a flight school with an affiliation with an airline to have a chance at making it? How much does it matter now that not many new pilots are being hired anyway.

I hope that is more clear. Thanks for the tip!

 

[JetPilot500]

Re: follow up

1. Does anybody have ANY info (good or bad) about ATU and Dr Bell or AF? American Flyers says that it has graduated more pilots than any other school, yet I couldn't find one post about them.

2. Do you have to go to a flight school with an affiliation with an airline to have a chance at making it? How much does it matter now that not many new pilots are being hired anyway.

1. American Flyers...well, if you have a TON of money to burn, go for it. You will find a lot of structure, and flight instructors that wear ties. Other than that, you could probally do a lot better at a local FBO. Search around, don't assume you need to go to a National flight school to get a good education. There are plenty of very dedicated and structured local flight schools out there. American Flyers charges an Arm-and-a-Leg to pay for all of their advertising, colorful brochures, and marketing executives.

Cessna Pilot Centers typically offer newer model training aircraft and a very good (structured) training program. Click on this link to find a place near you: Cessna Pilot Center Directory

2. Right now, there is probally very little benefit of attending a school with an airline affiliation. There is very little airline hiring right now, and that trend is probally going to continue for a few years. Don't let them convince you that they are the only way to an airline job. Those jobs are not guaranteed, and with little hiring, there will be little to no chance of them helping you get a job.

Hope this helps,
Jetpilot500

 

[JetPilot500]

Re: Re: Flight Training Options

First of all, if you expect to get a worthwhile response you might try asking specific questions. "Insight" can be found by using the search button at the top of the page.

Secondly, corporate america does not seem too bad if you look at the current state of the airline and flying industry in general. To be blunt, after the ship starts sinking, the smart ones jump off the boat and not on.

Ali

First of all, LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS!

Secondly, "jumping off the boat" is not necessarilly the right attitude here. Yes, the industry is in turmoil, but people will not stop flying airplanes. There will eventually be a turn-around, when is yet-to-be determined.

I learned how to fly in the last industry down-turn. It was a struggle, but I was near the top of the pile with high levels of experience when the industry turned around. That made me very marketable when times got good again. And times will get good again.

There is no right or wrong time to start a pilot career, especially if that is what you want to do. It will be a tough road, but if it is your dream, then do it! Get started and be ready for the next hiring boom, maybe in 5 years. Five years from now will be about the time you are ready to move on to an airline career anyhow. So if that is the case, now is the perfect time to start.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[dondk]

American Flyers is a good school... Although they really do not have any multi-engine training (maybe 1 or 2 locations).
AF also teaches exclusively in the 172, so unless your a big person you really do not need to spend the extra money. If you can fit into a 152 or similar you will save some bucks.

I agree with JetPilot500... very few of these "affiliated" schools are going to guarantee you any type of a job in the near future. They may offer you a CFI job if your lucky.

The schools that "increase" your odds are MAPD, Comair, and I believe ERAU to name a few, but before you go and run to them... Ask how many of them have placed pilots lately and more importantly out of total hiring for the respective airline, how many of the total were from these schools? I think you will find the numbers to be a lot lower than you think (20-30%) and the bulk of new hires came walking off of the street.


best of luck anyway....

 

[El Cid Av8or]

Go here --> Be a Pilot.com

I looked at every flight school on the eastern seaboard and even some west of the muddy river. Bottom line: I am finishing my ratings at my local FBO for about half of the cheapest flight school.

 

[DboneVT]

Thanks for the info

I want to thank everybody that replied to my request for info. In the meantime, I also used the search tool on this site. Very helpful. There has been some info over the last year or so on AF, and most of it was good as far as quality. Their price is $40k for what most other schools are doing for $30k-$35k, so I guess it's a little high.

 

[JetPilot500]

If American Flyers is Quoting you $40k, plan on it being $50-60k. The quote of $40k is an estimate based on minimum FAA requirements. Most people do not finish within the minimum requirements. Especially with the Private Pilot Programs.

Most other schools quote the same way...so plan on more with them as well.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[Riddle momma]

AF

AF is a good school. They are very professional and structured. However, they are way over priced. I did my CFI with them and they were charging $170 an hour in a C172RG. That's more than ERAU charges an hour in their twin! Like the previous post said, only two or three places offer twin training.
To keep the costs down, since you already have a degree, I recommend the FBO way. The ground school is all on your own, and the rates are WAY lower. Most of the instructors at the FBOs would love a student who wants to get through their ratings fast. Belive me )

Good luck with the career change! You are going to enjoy it!

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight Schools

You don't necessarily have to go to an airline-sponsered school to make it big in aviation. What you want is a school which will give you good training, name recognition, and perhaps provide some connections. Training considerations should be paramount.

I'll suggest, again, FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach, Florida. I worked there ten years ago. I had some issues with management, but no issues at all with the training. The place carries great name recognition in the business and has connections. It also carries a big price tag, but I feel that you get what you pay for.

I instructed at ERAU, where Riddle Momma went to school. ERAU offers a great academic education for pilots, but going through the flight training program can be a struggle. FIT, where I believe Ali goes to school, is also a good program, on a par with Riddle.

I also instructed at Mesa Airlines' school, which is one of the referenced airline-sponsered flight schools. It has a good program, too, and, of course, the possibility of interviewing with Mesa Airlines with only 300 hours of flight time. However, it could be a long time between interview and class when you should be out flying and maintaining your proficiency. Also, there might be some labor issues at Mesa that could impact new MAPD grads.

Now's a good time for you to train, so you can be ready for when pilot hiring improves, which it will. Good luck with your plans.

 

[172driver]

Bobby,

I think it's great that you represent your alma mater well but do you notice there are no current FSI people singing the praises? Last I heard there was about a 1.2/1 student/CFI ratio, CFI's flying 10 hrs a month, 10 month wait for employment, etc. Just putting it out there. Maybe some FSI guys/gals can comment?

 

[bobbysamd]

Clarification

I didn't take my training at FSI. I was hired from outside. Looking back, I wish I had trained at a place like FSI or something like Riddle instead of at my local airport with private instructors. There was quite a bit of learning that I didn't receive at the time. I should have received that learning.

I indeed realize that there's a major backlog of FSI-trained CFIs waiting for their chance. But, that's probably true at the moment at most every commercial flight school that hires from within. Maybe Comair is an exception. Just the same, the time will come when all that will change because it always does.

A couple things I'd mention that I liked about all three schools I mentioned were their emphasis on SOPs. Each had a slightly different philosophy about standardization, but all had the same goal. ERAU in Prescott emphasized flows. I never heard of "flows" until I started working there. FSI emphasized checklists and profiles. The spin training and unusual attitudes training were big plusses. Mesa emphasized the line-oriented flight training philosophy based on its procedures. I know that Comair has the same emphasis. Acquiring a thorough indoctrination in SOPs will only benefit you when you take the major leap from instructing in simple airplanes to being part of a crew in more complicated equipment.

Once again, good luck with your choice.

 

[Chunk]

FSI

Okay...as a FSI student, I'll 'sing' some praise....

It's a great school and I couldn't be happier. The industry sucks all over, but the training is second to none.

Chunk

 

[cryodon]

hey dbone

I would recommend going to an FBO for your private.
There are many qualified instructors to help you get this done in a cost effective and timely manner.

See if you like flying first before hooking in with anyone for large sums of money.

I checked out AF a few years ago and they wanted twice the amount of money for my commercial over what I paid my local FBO.


Monty

 

[aldassy]

I am biased towards local FBO's because that how I went through my training. I put in a lot of effort and I think I got my moneys worth at the end. I am a CFI at the school now and things are great.
I have known some instructors from the local AF chapter that have either quit or were laid off when it shut down. None have anything really positive to say about the school. (Although they are probably biased too!)
One of the students here went to Comair after his private training. He wrote to us recently and expressed his extreme regret. The school has all his money now and he does not feel like he can back out. He felt like they did a great job recruiting and advertising, but when he got there he was treated like a number. The faster he gets through his ratings the more money the school makes, so there is no real interest in quality just speed. He has been disappointed by the whole experience so much that he does not really care to work for Comair once he graduates so any advantage he had by training there is now meaningless to him. Again just another .02 but I though I'd throw it out there.
The bottom line is that you will get out exactly what you put in. An excellent attitude and a good work ethic can make up for most shortcomings in your school. Good luck with your training!