Flight Schools

[D8Ball]

There is no doubt that the basic flying fundamentals are a major part of IFR training but that is the obvious...the 101 of IFR. You keep going back to the cost comparison issue of an older airplane to a newer airplane.

The topic I brought up is that a GPS equipped aircraft (approach capable) serves as a better all around learning device for the student. There are GPS's in older aircraft and you don't need to charge an extra $30.00 an hour just because it has a Garmin in it. My opinion, they are getting short changed when a flight school is too cheap to equip their aircraft with modern technology. GPS trainer or not, I feel it's just a cheap excuse. I have to endorse the schools that keep that in mind and reinvest in their flight line. Just my opinion, as we all do have them!

 

[Inconceivable]

NuGuy,

Excellent synopsis. Sometimes when I go to GA airports I just sit there and wonder where everything went. Ten years ago I was saddened by the difference from twenty years ago. Now it is literally like watching tumbleweeds blow--and this is in Central Florida!

I really do believe that we have seen the death of General Aviation in the United States. Something is wrong when a husband and wife who are both airline captains are quoted a "checkout/training" price on a SR-22 at Air Orlando that exceeds the cost of our last vacation to HKG. (Hey Air Orlando--that's why they are sitting on the ramp all day!)

I really pity a kid starting out today.

 

[nosehair]

When he's done with the checkride, give him a good 6-10 hours dual in the airplane with the box. At this point he's got the basic IFR stuff mastered, and can give his attention to working with the box real world instead of struggling to keep the plane upright while he twists the knobs.

This path is less expensive (and mind you, few people do the rating in only 40 hours, so the real difference is even greater), and you get a much better product, instead of a pilot who sh!ts a brick when the screen goes blank.

Hey NuGuy, I'm with you. But I think we're a dying breed. Kinda reminds me of the same struggle we saw back when the new Cessna 150 with a nosewheel came out. "I'd rather fly this shiny new Airline type Tricycle gear - that's what the training is all about."

Well, if you know anything about directional control skills, and how that fundamental skill is lost, you know the basic instrument attitude control and situational awareness techniques are going to go down the same way with starting instrument students out on the modern easy-to-fly/navigate toys we have today.

 

[mayday1]

NuGuy,

I really pity a kid starting out today.

no kidding... I cringe when I HEAR what people are paying.. I couldn't imagine actually signing the loan papers to pay for training.. these costs are getting "mortgage-esque"

 

[NuGuy]

NuGuy,

Excellent synopsis. Sometimes when I go to GA airports I just sit there and wonder where everything went. Ten years ago I was saddened by the difference from twenty years ago. Now it is literally like watching tumbleweeds blow--and this is in Central Florida!

I really do believe that we have seen the death of General Aviation in the United States. Something is wrong when a husband and wife who are both airline captains are quoted a "checkout/training" price on a SR-22 at Air Orlando that exceeds the cost of our last vacation to HKG. (Hey Air Orlando--that's why they are sitting on the ramp all day!)

I really pity a kid starting out today.

Heyas Inc,

Yep. I thought for a while the GA Revitalization Act back in 1996 would get the ball rolling again, and to be fair, I wasn't exposed to a whole lot of first hand experience since I was busy working the airline career.

But $90/hr for a 152? Are you sh!tting me? It ain't just gas, neither...check the cost of overhauling a O-235 these days? Crazy!

I don't know about the LSA deal either. It's fine for 2, but most people I know want at least 4 seats and some sort of IFR capability. Cessna wants 110K for their VFR two seater, but look at the price jump from that to even a basic 172.

But seeing FXE the other day was just a shocker. Absolutely pristine VFR weekend, and not a soul in sight.

A LOT of GA, and I mean ALOT, was going on with people who were just everyday Joes...teachers, policemen, etc. But that market has just been obliterated.

To learn to fly in 1987 at KNEW, I paid $250 to the FBO "club", which was a Cessna Pilot Center (wish I'd kept my "Red Bag"). For $25/mo (club dues), I flew 152s at $30, 172s (newish) for $39, and a Archer with DME/AP and A/C for $50. All wet.

My handy dandy inflation calculator says today it should cost me $53.17/hr (plus $44/mo club dues), which must be ok, because I would find those prices reasonable.

Back when I was first learning, in the late 80s, I used to thing "wow, what a time the 70's must have been, where Cessna was pumping out every kind of airplane, and even the funky little GA airports were still operating in the middle of towns".

Now I just wish to have the 80's back. Sad, really. I read the AOPA mag these days, and they paint this wonderful picture, but out in the real world, its a pretty barren place, IMHO.

Nu

 

[D8Ball]

fuel has made an impact, but so has insurance. Commercial aircraft insurance has also multiplied within the last few years. Well heck, really, everything has gone way up....tie downs, hangars, parts....seems to be the domino effect.

As for the advanced aircraft, I'm seing many that want to learn on EFIS now and pay for that. Simply said by one, "If EFIS is in my future, I should learn on it now". I have to agree because aviation has really changed in the past few years. I never imagined a G1000 in a single engine aircraft.

I remember my first interview for a major fractional when I was asked if I had any EFIS experience. My answer was "no" at the time and they recommended that I went out and got some.....did just that, came back and got hired. So in some ways I can't blame those who want to learn on it from the beginning. I agree it is a shame to see everything changing so fast, but it is what it is. We now have a flight school at my airport with EFIS Diamonds...hard to compete with, people just want to fly them.

 

[NuGuy]

I remember my first interview for a major fractional when I was asked if I had any EFIS experience. My answer was "no" at the time and they recommended that I went out and got some.....did just that, came back and got hired.

Heyas,

That's pretty ironic. At NWA, the bust rate on the interview sim is around %50, because people can't fly without it.

Pick your poison. It's much easier for a person to go to EFIS than the other way around.

Nu

 

[D8Ball]

Heyas,

That's pretty ironic. At NWA, the bust rate on the interview sim is around %50, because people can't fly without it.

Pick your poison. It's much easier for a person to go to EFIS than the other way around.

Nu

Good point! An instructor teaching in a TAA should deinately make the student work off of the attitude indictor that is also installed in the aircraft as a back up. If that dosen't work, because there is usually no VSI, then I would recommend some flights in a non EFIS aircraft. Most TAA's do have a standard attitude, altimeter and airspeed indicator though. You do need to be well rounded.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I agree. It seems as though most of the flight schools in my area seem to cater towards international students. Maybe it's just me, but the schools that are still in business and doing well seem to have a majority of foreigners as their student base.

The cost is just outrageous, even to rent something like a C172!!!

 

[NuGuy]

I agree. It seems as though most of the flight schools in my area seem to cater towards international students. Maybe it's just me, but the schools that are still in business and doing well seem to have a majority of foreigners as their student base.

The cost is just outrageous, even to rent something like a C172!!!

Heyas PG,

The recreational crowd seems to have gone underground to the clubs or the real Mom n Pop operators (1-2 planes).

All I know is that the tumbleweeds are blowing at FXE on the weekends. It was one of the busiest GA airports in FL at one time, and its creepy.

Nu

 

[D8Ball]

Heyas PG,

The recreational crowd seems to have gone underground to the clubs or the real Mom n Pop operators (1-2 planes).

All I know is that the tumbleweeds are blowing at FXE on the weekends. It was one of the busiest GA airports in FL at one time, and its creepy.

Nu

Ahh. good ole' FXE! Did most of my training there in the early 90's....and yes it was a very busy airport at the time. It's a shame to hear that it is no longer the same...real shame!