Flight school sued for $50,000,000

[Fly_Chick]

With a private student, how much are you going to teach, and how much is the student going to learn on an actual IMC flight? I think it would just scare the student, unless of course you had quite a few hours of ground instruction beforehand about what to expect.

Sure, I will go into a cloud with a private student, call ATC for clearance for training purposes when we are in the practice area and I see an attractive, suitable cloud.

Yet I have to think about what I am teaching the student (indirectly, subconsciously) by filing and then going up in IMC with him/her.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

With a private student, how much are you going to teach, and how much is the student going to learn on an actual IMC flight? I think it would just scare the student, unless of course you had quite a few hours of ground instruction beforehand about what to expect.

Sure, I will go into a cloud with a private student, call ATC for clearance for training purposes when we are in the practice area and I see an attractive, suitable cloud.

Yet I have to think about what I am teaching the student (indirectly, subconsciously) by filing and then going up in IMC with him/her.

so instead you will throw them under a hood for 3 hrs on a nice vfr day?

if thats your comfy level, stick with it.

 

[GravityHater]

What flight school has that kind of dough? The insurance policy will have limits way below that. Think they will collect anything or is it more of a "I wanna see them suffer' lawsuit? Heck they lost a plane, a customer, and a CFI. Now they have to defend against that. The defense alone would kill any small business, let alone any awards.
I note the CFI reports just slightly more hours than the student, relatively speaking. Probably no senior CFI or 'chief' FI overseeing things?

 

[Fly_Chick]

so instead you will throw them under a hood for 3 hrs on a nice vfr day?

if thats your comfy level, stick with it.

It depends on the type of IMC. I once had a new student, very first flight, conditions IMC, and told to take him up, as he will "have to learn sometime". I did not, as I did not want him to think that normal. Just because I am instrument rated, as a private pilot, he is/will be PIC, and has to make decisions. We often lead by example, and the example I wanted to set is one of proper decision making.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

It depends on the type of IMC. I once had a new student, very first flight, conditions IMC, and told to take him up, as he will "have to learn sometime". I did not, as I did not want him to think that normal. Just because I am instrument rated, as a private pilot, he is/will be PIC, and has to make decisions. We often lead by example, and the example I wanted to set is one of proper decision making.

Understood. Now think outside the box.

Youre in early and waiting for your student. You know the wx in not VFR. You have a quick backup plan to grab a quick IFR clearance, spend 10 mins on a departure in the clouds, then do an entire lesson in great VFR wx. If the wx is still down you pick up a quick approach back in. simple enough.

Now...your sharp student shows up. He asks if you are going up? you say you dont know....you ask him to check the wx. After an in-depth analysis he comes back and says "sorry boss, we can go anywhere for hours, its 700ovc and 2m in fog here, tops at 2000ft...too bad because just 10 miles North of here is great VFR!.....maybe I will go home"....

"good decision Johnny"...

Is that where your lesson ends today?

too bad, you could have applauded great decision making.....then turned it into a great flight lesson also.

 

[Milkdud99]

Understood. Now think outside the box.

Youre in early and waiting for your student. You know the wx in not VFR. You have a quick backup plan to grab a quick IFR clearance, spend 10 mins on a departure in the clouds, then do an entire lesson in great VFR wx. If the wx is still down you pick up a quick approach back in. simple enough.

Now...your sharp student shows up. He asks if you are going up? you say you dont know....you ask him to check the wx. After an in-depth analysis he comes back and says "sorry boss, we can go anywhere for hours, its 700ovc and 2m in fog here, tops at 2000ft...too bad because just 10 miles North of here is great VFR!.....maybe I will go home"....

"good decision Johnny"...

Is that where your lesson ends today?

too bad, you could have taught great decision making then turned it into a great flight lesson also.

ok... i somewhat see your point.. not completely tho,

PERSONALLY and this is just me, a 200' ceiling is less than what i would go up in let alone take a student up in. and the main reason is do to the MDA.. 200?????


Yes i do agree that it is the instructor asking for a problem, and i think THIS situation would be a bad idea to take a pilot who doesn't even have a rating... even sport.

Oh by the way, 4 hours a day of flight training is pretty intense. ESPECIALLY for a student pilot!

 

[Iceman21]

I note the CFI reports just slightly more hours than the student, relatively speaking. Probably no senior CFI or 'chief' FI overseeing things?

Read the article again, the CFI had over 900 hours.

I did my training at American Flyers, finished my CFI and multi ratings in less than 6 months. I did some of my required instrument training for the private in actual, and have done it with my students, BUT not in that kind of weather. 200 and a half is not condusive for learning at all. I bet that students a$$ along with the instructors was so puckered you couldn't squeeze a fart out.

At any rate, I see this going the plantiff's way easily.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

ok... i somewhat see your point.. not completely tho,

PERSONALLY and this is just me, a 200' ceiling is less than what i would go up in let alone take a student up in. and the main reason is do to the MDA.. 200?????


Yes i do agree that it is the instructor asking for a problem, and i think THIS situation would be a bad idea to take a pilot who doesn't even have a rating... even sport.

Oh by the way, 4 hours a day of flight training is pretty intense. ESPECIALLY for a student pilot!

I agree, the day of the accident those guys had NO reason to be up there. Nobody was learning anything. It was criminal IMHO.

But to bag every Private lesson because of a little wx is extreme. Its not as much the 200' ceiling they should have been concerned about as it was the LLWS of 60kts at 2000' and the mod+ turbulence reported by airliners and larger corp jets that day.

Sorry, but if a 737 or a GV is diverting, so might I in my 172.

Use you head, pick your students wisely, and always know your own limits! (personal and equipment)....

but for gods sakes, lets not be narrow minded - there are many effective ways to teach.

 

[GravityHater]

Read the article again, the CFI had over 900 hours.

Not that any of this matters.... I agree with you that the plaintiff will prevail, but have to ask what the end result will be. How much $ will pass from defendant to plaintiff.

 

[Iceman21]

Oh by the way, 4 hours a day of flight training is pretty intense. ESPECIALLY for a student pilot!

As is finishing a private certificate in 14 days

and 8 hours of IFR sim training a day 3 days straight.

Intense but a heck of alot of fun.

...but have to ask what the end result will be. How much $ will pass from defendant to plaintiff.

Your guess is as good as mine. I wonder what it will do to Clark and Dave over there at AF.