Flight School Info - Get off the fence

[bobbysamd]

Dedication and commitment

Good comments, Tarp. I couldn't have written it better myself. Great food for thought.

 

[jldv]

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you, Tarp. I appreciate your feedback.

What is poverty, by the way? What are the wages for a new instructor? Corporate FO? Regional FO? Commercial FO?

I've done some research but honestly this career move is not about money, its about getting out of this office and enjoying life a little more.

Thanks again to everyone who has replied. This is extremely valuable information.

 

[northmountain]

comments re: FSI

I recently left FSI for a regional (and they cancelled my class date for an indefinite period of time).....but here are my comments re: FSI
As a student:
1. You will get very individual attention. Most instructors only have 1 or 2 students.
2. Jump into any VFR Cadet, they are all the same. Same can be said for all the new Seminoles. Maintenance there gets an A plus plus. Maintenance guys are always happy to teach you a thing or two. Great group of guys.
3. Even though I HATED standardization (one of the evil stand pilots has moved on--thank god), overall, it really added to the professional caliber of the instructors.
4. As with ANY flight school, add 20 percent to your cost that is quoted. The Private pilot syllabus is 32 hours! Very few people are able to meet the times quoted.
5. Gemini, gemini....It is a free opportunity to fly like crazy in the back seat and observe other students and instructors. In an industry where nothing is free...this is. Take advantage of it and you'll learn alot and keep your cost down.
6. The Microsoft Lab is another plus. It is free. The stupid things don't fly at all like the real thing, but it develops your scan, helps with holds and helps with approaches when you get to the instrument phase of your training. FREE.
7. Historically, there has been a rift between the ground school side of the business and the flight line. It degrades each side's professionalism. They may have done something to fix this. Not sure.
8. You are the customer and if you have a problem with something I believe they will try to fix it.

As an instructor I enjoyed my time there. Things have slowed to a snail's pace, however. This is no fault of FSI's. Just the times we live in. At one time I was flying over 100 hours a month. When I left, it was 30. There is a big pool of people waiting to instruct there.

Don't let that last paragraph discourage you. You can always interview, get into the pool and instruct someplace else.

As a side note as far as cost....yes it is expensive but I think most of it is justified. A trend I see at alot of flight schools is the insane cost of the cfi. People are spending 10K plus just for the CFI. Stupid.

 

[jldv]

AWESOME! Thanks, northmountain.

Any other FSI folks out there? It sounds like a very reputable place.

What about ATP? Any stories on them? Any specific location people have had success/frustration?

Thanks again.

 

[na265]

Great info from everyone. I would add to maybe look at Airman's in Oklahoma City(i think). The prices I have seen there seem pretty good. My story is that I attended a 2 yr Jr college in Altus, Ok after getting my 4 yr degree. The pace was way to slow, so, I went to American Flyers in Addison, Tx. I got my Single-comm-inst and CFI. From that point I went back to Lubbock and started to instruct. During that time I picked up my CFII, Multi and MEI. It worked well for me bc I was able to rent AC at a discount, being an employee. This was in the early-mid-90's. Not many jobs, so, I skipped from one school to another when the schools closed. This is what I did. It might not work for you.
I hope this helped. I think you are on the right track. It can be a long road. The important thing is to stick with it and not give up. All my friends who stayed with the dream, did make it to the regionals, some to the majors and I am working in a great corproate job. Good luck!

 

[Bouyer]

check them out

CHECK OUT AIRLINE TRAINING ACADEMY (WWW.FLYHERE.COM) IN ORLANDO GREAT TRAINING AND A GREAT MANAGEMENT TEAM. THEY HAVE SEVERAL TRAINING ROUTES TO CHOOSE FROM. I AM A STUDENT THERE AND I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH ALL SO FAR. I CHECKED OUT ABOUT 10 SCHOOLS BEFORE MAKING MY DECISION.
RELATIVELY ALL OF THE SCHOOLS OFFER THE SAME KIND OF TRAINING IT IS REALLY ABOUT YOUR INSTRUSTORS AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE. YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR TRAINING

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I learned to fly at a small FBO in Massachusetts and later picked up my Commercial and Instrument on the same field. I was fortunate to have a very experienced instructors. One was a former USAF F-4 driver and the other was a CV-580 Captain.
After a 20 year career flying in helicopters as an aircrewman and staring at various scopes, recorders and flying "Starboard Delta for too many hours to count. I retired and have commenced a new career as a flight instructor. I completed my C-AMEL, CFI, CFII and MEI with ATP (Airline Transport Professionals). Pretty good outfit, and excellent training. I'd recommend it, but only if you are already proficient on instruments because if you are struggling with that on top of learning their procedures and the airplane it will be an uphill battle. Overall it was money well spent and I lucked out into a full-time instructor gig as soon as I returned home. However, lately all I've done is shovel a lot of snow in hopes of better flying weather!
Good luck and remember that integrity is everything in this business.

Regards,

ex-Navy rotorhead

 

[bobbysamd]

Mesa

You also mentioned Mesa. I instructed there, too, and I thought you'd like a few comments.

Mesa Airlines Pilot Development is different from FlightSafety. Mesa's school trains its students from the beginning to be pilots for Mesa Airlines. The students receive training for their Commercial-Instrument-Multi and a two year Aviation Technology degree from San Juan College in Farmington. It has similar degree programs set up at Arizona State and Midland College in Texas (I believe that is the correct school). Graduates leave with 300 hours. Those who do what they're supposed to do and act the way they're supposed to act will get an interview with Mesa Airlines. The program works. I worked there only for a term, but I know that at least four of my seven students got on with Mesa.

You might be asking, why only four of seven? For the reasons I stated above. MAPD students are scrutinized closely from the moment they start training and the bad actors are identified quickly. I had two such persons; one of whom actually flew decently but did not act decently. He was an AF veteran and felt he was owed. That is not the way to comport yourself at Mesa, or FSI, or any school from which you hope to gain employment!

(I don't know what happened to one of my students and the other was another problem type.)

Mesa is not an accelerated program. Quite the contrary. It is an eighteen-month program. You take one flight course per semester along with your other college courses. I don't recall any of my students taking a full load. Most already have degrees or some college and are taking enough courses to meet the A.S. requirements. That's the method I would recommend, because taking a full load and flying at Mesa is a major workload.

Contrary to what many people believe, MAPD is not P-F-T. Although you are imbued with Mesa line procedures from Day One, the tickets you earn at MAPD are good anywhere. MAPD does not offer a CFI program.

Finally, although you might get "the interview," from that point on you are on your own. You are not a shoe-in for a job, although the contacts you may have made as a student might help you. And you most certainly aren't a shoe-in to make it through ground school and training. You might be ahead of the game regarding Mesa SOPs, but the street hires, who have been around longer and have more experience, will catch up and maybe go past you. You'll have to work as hard as anyone, maybe harder, to make it to the line.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your decision.

 

[tarp]

JLDV - you asked:

"What is poverty, by the way? What are the wages for a new instructor? Corporate FO? Regional FO? Commercial FO?"

I go way back (like to the eighties) so I don't have any current situation but you can just ask the school.

Back in my day, (I'll use Comair Academy as an example), they would ask the top students in a "class" group to visit the Chief Pilot's office. The "offer" which was considered a "reward" and quite an honor was to accept an 18-month contract. The contract had these points -

1.) $12,500/yr salary, BUT..
2.) Free housing (double occupancy in one of their Apartments)
3.) A Comair Brasilia orientation ride at the end of the contract and
4.) The "opportunity" to interview with Comair.

My current employer pays all first year FO's $21.53/flt-hr. and the current training stipend is $200/wk. This is regional pay.

My local FBO pays their new flight instructors $12.00/hr for every flight/ground school hour they bill. (More for CFII and gold seals)

But you say you've researched this stuff.....you should know these numbers by now. Yes, newly minted CFI's have a hard time with money.

If FO pay at the regional is $21,000 (given the 1000hr/yr max) and most CFI's are dying to get that job, then you can imagine what the typical CFI is clearing while trying to fly hundreds of hours in trainer planes.

It ain't pretty. But all the crazies here on this board seem to like it. Paying my dues, paying my dues.

 

[jldv]

Thanks again.

This move is for sanity, not pay.

I've researched my training options. Pay isn't one thing I've looked into a great deal. It isn't a major factor to be honest. I've assumed it will be pretty sad for a long while and I'll just have to get back to college livin'.

But at least I won't be in an office.