Flight School Info - Get off the fence

[Bouyer]

check them out

CHECK OUT AIRLINE TRAINING ACADEMY (WWW.FLYHERE.COM) IN ORLANDO GREAT TRAINING AND A GREAT MANAGEMENT TEAM. THEY HAVE SEVERAL TRAINING ROUTES TO CHOOSE FROM. I AM A STUDENT THERE AND I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH ALL SO FAR. I CHECKED OUT ABOUT 10 SCHOOLS BEFORE MAKING MY DECISION.
RELATIVELY ALL OF THE SCHOOLS OFFER THE SAME KIND OF TRAINING IT IS REALLY ABOUT YOUR INSTRUSTORS AND HOW GOOD THEY ARE. YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR TRAINING

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I learned to fly at a small FBO in Massachusetts and later picked up my Commercial and Instrument on the same field. I was fortunate to have a very experienced instructors. One was a former USAF F-4 driver and the other was a CV-580 Captain.
After a 20 year career flying in helicopters as an aircrewman and staring at various scopes, recorders and flying "Starboard Delta for too many hours to count. I retired and have commenced a new career as a flight instructor. I completed my C-AMEL, CFI, CFII and MEI with ATP (Airline Transport Professionals). Pretty good outfit, and excellent training. I'd recommend it, but only if you are already proficient on instruments because if you are struggling with that on top of learning their procedures and the airplane it will be an uphill battle. Overall it was money well spent and I lucked out into a full-time instructor gig as soon as I returned home. However, lately all I've done is shovel a lot of snow in hopes of better flying weather!
Good luck and remember that integrity is everything in this business.

Regards,

ex-Navy rotorhead

 

[bobbysamd]

Mesa

You also mentioned Mesa. I instructed there, too, and I thought you'd like a few comments.

Mesa Airlines Pilot Development is different from FlightSafety. Mesa's school trains its students from the beginning to be pilots for Mesa Airlines. The students receive training for their Commercial-Instrument-Multi and a two year Aviation Technology degree from San Juan College in Farmington. It has similar degree programs set up at Arizona State and Midland College in Texas (I believe that is the correct school). Graduates leave with 300 hours. Those who do what they're supposed to do and act the way they're supposed to act will get an interview with Mesa Airlines. The program works. I worked there only for a term, but I know that at least four of my seven students got on with Mesa.

You might be asking, why only four of seven? For the reasons I stated above. MAPD students are scrutinized closely from the moment they start training and the bad actors are identified quickly. I had two such persons; one of whom actually flew decently but did not act decently. He was an AF veteran and felt he was owed. That is not the way to comport yourself at Mesa, or FSI, or any school from which you hope to gain employment!

(I don't know what happened to one of my students and the other was another problem type.)

Mesa is not an accelerated program. Quite the contrary. It is an eighteen-month program. You take one flight course per semester along with your other college courses. I don't recall any of my students taking a full load. Most already have degrees or some college and are taking enough courses to meet the A.S. requirements. That's the method I would recommend, because taking a full load and flying at Mesa is a major workload.

Contrary to what many people believe, MAPD is not P-F-T. Although you are imbued with Mesa line procedures from Day One, the tickets you earn at MAPD are good anywhere. MAPD does not offer a CFI program.

Finally, although you might get "the interview," from that point on you are on your own. You are not a shoe-in for a job, although the contacts you may have made as a student might help you. And you most certainly aren't a shoe-in to make it through ground school and training. You might be ahead of the game regarding Mesa SOPs, but the street hires, who have been around longer and have more experience, will catch up and maybe go past you. You'll have to work as hard as anyone, maybe harder, to make it to the line.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your decision.

 

[tarp]

JLDV - you asked:

"What is poverty, by the way? What are the wages for a new instructor? Corporate FO? Regional FO? Commercial FO?"

I go way back (like to the eighties) so I don't have any current situation but you can just ask the school.

Back in my day, (I'll use Comair Academy as an example), they would ask the top students in a "class" group to visit the Chief Pilot's office. The "offer" which was considered a "reward" and quite an honor was to accept an 18-month contract. The contract had these points -

1.) $12,500/yr salary, BUT..
2.) Free housing (double occupancy in one of their Apartments)
3.) A Comair Brasilia orientation ride at the end of the contract and
4.) The "opportunity" to interview with Comair.

My current employer pays all first year FO's $21.53/flt-hr. and the current training stipend is $200/wk. This is regional pay.

My local FBO pays their new flight instructors $12.00/hr for every flight/ground school hour they bill. (More for CFII and gold seals)

But you say you've researched this stuff.....you should know these numbers by now. Yes, newly minted CFI's have a hard time with money.

If FO pay at the regional is $21,000 (given the 1000hr/yr max) and most CFI's are dying to get that job, then you can imagine what the typical CFI is clearing while trying to fly hundreds of hours in trainer planes.

It ain't pretty. But all the crazies here on this board seem to like it. Paying my dues, paying my dues.

 

[jldv]

Thanks again.

This move is for sanity, not pay.

I've researched my training options. Pay isn't one thing I've looked into a great deal. It isn't a major factor to be honest. I've assumed it will be pretty sad for a long while and I'll just have to get back to college livin'.

But at least I won't be in an office.

 

[Av8trxx]

I heartily agree with Tarp on almost all of his comments save:
"At the FBO, you will not have consistent training or consistent equipment" .

I did my ratings via a FLYING CLUB . Not an FBO or flight school. The rental rates were excellent by comparison and the fleet was well maintained and most had many extra nice-ities in the panel. Club members use freelance CFIs. My instructor was a TWA pilot who loved to teach on the side. I think this is a far better scenario than going to some place where Joe Blow CFI who has 600 hours takes you on. Since 9/11, there are several airline pilots who have gone back to part time instructing at my homefield. They can certainly add a facet to your training that no never been there or done that airline stuff instructor could. I'd check your area out and see.

Regarding the Airline Training Academy (or the like), ATA has bridge programs with American Eagle (not hiring, 200 pilots on indefinate furlough), Atlantic Coast Airlines (limited hiring but graduates must interview like everyone else after an intership), Discover Air (so small I've never heard of 'em) and Trans States (limited hiring). The latter one might be their best chance at getting pilots hired. I suggest you ask about how many pilots are coming into their ranks via the ATA at their pilot forum:

The TSA Lounge

For $60,000 you only get the chance to interview with their affiliates? Hmmmm. Get concrete info on how many graduates and who hired them before you sign on there or anywhere. There are so many pilots with 3-4 times the total hours ATA grads get that are unemployed right now. If you were on the hiring board, who would you pick??? There is no rush to get a job as the industry is still in the toilet, so why spend $60K when you could spend half that? If you have the money and the time you could still finish all your ratings in 12-18 months. Just my two cents on that......

As for regional airline payscales, here is a message posting containing that information for several companies:

Eaglelounge.com/Message forum: "Airline Payscales"

 

[Timebuilder]

Particularly at this time of industry depression, I can think of no credible reason to recommend a big name school over a small FBO or flight school. My training at such places was just fine.

I almost took an instructor job at Leesburg, but I'm glad I didn't. Their instructors are continuing to work at a slave wage (they're told that this is an internship in aviation....) while waiting for hiring to pick up at ACA. And, it is an expensive palce to live if you aren't on government housing assistance. Consider all of the costs, along with your possibilities.

What you need is this: a place where you can instruct after you finish your training, and not just 10 or 20 hours a week.

 

[172driver]

CHECK OUT AIRLINE TRAINING ACADEMY (WWW.FLYHERE.COM) IN ORLANDO GREAT TRAINING AND A GREAT MANAGEMENT TEAM. THEY HAVE SEVERAL TRAINING ROUTES TO CHOOSE FROM. I AM A STUDENT THERE AND I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH ALL SO FAR. I CHECKED OUT ABOUT 10 SCHOOLS BEFORE MAKING MY DECISION.

How do you feel about em now? Still completely satisfied?

 

[Iceman21]

I am getting all my training done through American Flyers at PWK. I will say up front that it is expensive, but what school isn't. I will be paying just about 50K for my ratings up to CFI-I not including my MEI and Multi ratings. I started there full time in January and I should have my CFI done by 220 Hrs TT in early April.

I have seen many people bash American Flyers because of cost, but I ask the question why? What makes American Flyers any different than say Pan Am or FSI? You would spend the same amount of money at any of the above schools. It just so happens that I was not able to pick my family up and move to Arizona or Florida to get everything done at say FSI or Pan Am.

I will say that I have been very happy with my time at American Flyers, although I feel that I am in somewhat of a unigue environment at PWK. The management seems abit different at the other AF's I have visited.

Just some random thoughts of mine.