Flight Safety Academy

[Torey15]

Whatever Potsy-made it through the entire program in five months without repeating a lesson, busting a ride or a stage check - virtually on my own.

Man, that interview for the brand new CIME FSI Academy grad is difficult - let me stick this mirror underneath your nose and ask you a couple of very serious situational awareness questions that really make applicants think hard like, "Have you ever killed anyone?" Well, what do you know, this guy is breathing and look, he's never been convicted of a felony, lets invite him to Atlanta.

Oh, by the way, there will not be a sim session during this interview to assess your IFR abilities. We will do that with 30 hours in the Seneca, plus time in each seat of the Saab 2000. We will make sure an instructor is with you at all times - we really do not care to see if you can think on your own. Don't forget, that FSI needs a big check from you before you can start - please pay for your job, I mean pay on your way out.

I chose not to be a part of that on my own accord. So take that one percent of yours and have a Merry Christmas.

 

[lymanm]

DCA

For what it's worth, I attended DCA (then Comair Academy) from 2000 to 2001. I was fresh out of highschool, and had been impressed with the glossy ads, and the free visit down there. While this isn't directly FSI related, I think it's a good idea to get a fair idea what is out there.

Pros

The training was excellent, the instructors knowlegable and were always willing to put in the free ground instruction because they knew just how much everyone was paying. Instructors were instructors - some lacked in some areas, some were excellent in others. I came in with my PPL from a P61 school, and completed my Instrument, Com/SE and CFI. I was always impressed with the quality of training and the "airline style" environment was an excellent foundation to my cockpit habits.

Cons

It was expensive. Per hour was more than your P61 FBO and the rigid P141 program did not lead to cost-saving flexibility. The aircraft were by no means pigs, but were not even close to state of the art. There was always a period during my Instrument and Com/SE where there was a shortage of aircraft, in one case going 6 days without flying. After living expenses, those 6 days add up. You get what you pay for, obviously, and I doubt I could have gone through my training as fast or with such regimented standards as I'd gone through.

Oh ya, living in Sanford sucks a$$, especially for a 19 year old!

Epilogue

I never did my CFII, nor applied to instruct at Comair, as I intended to go to school to get my BA (which I've finished 2 of 4 years currently). I currently instruct during my summers with my Comair CFI in a small town P61 operator. I would not have been able to competently handle the responsiblity and open standards had I not come from a P141 school, BUT I cannot see how CFIs in P141 schools learn how to make decisions as one does in a P61 environment, as there is zero flexibility to tailor flights to specific student problems.

Based on my experience, combining P61 decision making and 141 discipline is the way to go, but that's just me. To each unto their own.

First post, woo-hoo!

 

[asapilot]

a few comments and corrections...

For the most part, I'd agree with bobbysamd regarding FSI. I attended from '96-'98, going in with my Private and about 75 hours. I haven't been back since nor do I have much contact with anyone there, so I can't say how much has really changed. When I was there however, the facilities and equipment were excellent. You could count on properly maintained aircraft and rooms to use for study. Of course, as Torey mentioned, your instructor will dictate your experience more than any other factor. If you're not getting what you pay for, speak up and get a new one. That's true of all flight schools however, it's not particular to FSI. The training will prepare you well for 121-type operations, so if that's your goal, you should look seriously at FSI. It's true that some of the attitudes that prevail from the higher-ups do make life difficult, especially when you become an instructor. It's just a fact, take it or leave it. Everyone responds to different things, but if you're looking for good training, you could do a lot worse than FSI. It's also true that you shouldn't go because of the "guaranteed interview", "fast-track", "job placement" or whatever they're advertising these days. You may have some advantages being an FSI alum, but you can only count on yourself.

I have to take exception to a few other comments made by Torey however...

ASA has some of the biggest hacks in the industry currently flying for them

All my comments about ASA are truthful

Unless you've worked at ASA for any length of time, I don't think you're in a position to judge either the quality of our pilots or the accuracy of your own statement. I understand that you're way over-generalizing and you said later than you didn't mean it to reflect on the entire group, but how can it not? I will be the first to agree that we do have some huge tools flying for us, but out of all of them, only a very few are FSI grads. I too must be a hack in your eyes since I came to ASA with low time. Like bobbysamd said, most of the FSI folks came to ASA with quite a bit more than 200-250hours. Those folks all came from another school up the coast a little ways. Yes we do have some people that should have never made it to a 121 operator, but so does every other airline. While there's no substitute for experience, there is also no substitute for personal preparation. Give people some credit, a lot of guys/gals come out of FSI very well-prepared for the experience they'll have in their next job.

 

[bobbysamd]

Training programs in general

This is a general comment about all schools, and is geared especially for those who believe they were ill prepared after finishing training.

A training program is designed to lay a solid foundation for and equip you with the basic skills needed to do your job. No training program can equip you beyond that level. After completing training, it is experience that, hopefully, improves your knowledge and hones your skills. The old expression, experience is the best teacher, holds true. Just as the caption under the picture in the FOI notes, an instructor cannot open up the head of his/her trainee and pour in experience; experience must be obtained.

I make these comments after re-reading Torey's FSI training experience. The thing that keeps coming back is the fact that he obviously passed his practical exams. I'm assuming that FSI still had 141 self-examining authority when he was there; we had just obtained it while I was there in 1991-92. While some would argue that self-examining authority erodes or compromises the quality of training, he still had to demonstrate a minimum level of competence to receive his tickets, i.e. sufficient proficiency and knowledge to exercise the privileges granted to him. Not necessarily "outstanding" or "Ph.D" proficiency and knowledge.

(Situations where 141 self-examining authority has compromised or eroded training quality are those when higher-ups order stage check pilots to pass certain people and/or where the higher-ups are paranoid and frightened that they will lose self-examining because they feel too many students are busting. See, e.g., the recent American Flyers situation in Chicago.)

Now, if he felt inadequate to instruct after earning his CFI at FSI, I would note again that any training program equips you with the basic skills needed to do your job. A CFI really does learn on the job. That's why instructing is such a valuable learning experience - for the instructor. To this day, it still blows my mind how much I learned as a flight instructor.

Absolutely your instructor dictates your training experience, but your wet certificates prove that you have met at least a minimum standard. It is then up to you to take what you've learned and run with it.

 

[phishn@daves]

Hey Bobby!!!

I always know when I see your name under training it's going to be about FSI.

It just cracks me up that's all!!

I went there too in 1998! I also agree it has some of the best training, with the amount of a/c alone I was flying sometimes three times a day. The point being, that's all I was doing, flying and hanging around people who were flying, I did my PVT, COMM, SE, ME, Instr., there in under 6 mos.

I left there and felt very confident about my flying skills, of course all that has gone to Sh!t now that I have been gone for a number of years, but at the time I was very comfortable. Whichever flight school you choose, try to fly as much as possible and ask questions, talk to different instructors and students while you are there, everyone's experience is different, and you'll save a lot of money.

Good Luck and Fly safe!

 

[nosehair]

It's really sad that there is so much community agreement among instructors about how RIGID & INFLEXIBLE the 141 programs in these "Pilot Mills" are.
They don't have to be that way. Poor pilot training management and ill-prepared, inexperienced instructors make them seem that way. Pilot schools with 141 programs can be flexible and conform to the needs of the student. As a matter of fact, that is the way they are supposed to be. The FOI teaces that.
We (CFI's) should be screaming about these schools rigid adherance to a training outline that does not recognize the uniqueness of each individual student. Learning cannot occur unless the student is receptive. You can't make a person learn.

 

[bobbysamd]

FSI

I always know when I see your name under training it's going to be about FSI.

Not always. I think I've put up more than my fair share of Mesa and Riddle posts on this forum as well as FSI.

[W]ith the amount of a/c alone I was flying sometimes three times a day. The point being, that's all I was doing, flying and hanging around people who were flying, I did my PVT, COMM, SE, ME, Instr., there in under 6 mos

This is an important point, and one $0.02 reason why I like flight schools. Their only purpose is to train pilots. The only reasons why people are there are to train pilots or be trained. It is a nourishing environment for all.

By the way, according to this article in the Treasure Coast Business Journal (correction), FSI recently won the Excellence in Pilot Training Award from NATA. The place must be doing something right.

 

[flybub]

Started CIME program at FSI in Sept. 2001, graduated in April 2002. Very good school and facilities. I have no regrets attending there, eventhough I do not have a flying job now, it was great training (thanks to a great instructor). If you do attend I recommend getting hooked up with a crew partner. My crew partner and I flew together from day 1 and finished together and really made things easy. We blew away the classmates we started with time wise. When we finished our CIME program, our classmates were just getting into the middle of their instrument. Very helpful and beneficial.

 

[CFI'er]

Sorry to burst your bubble, nosehair, but the FAA are the ones that make a Part-141 program so rigid. It is designed with the purpose of training for a Certificate or Rating with the least amount of hours. A lot has to be covered in a short amount of time. In today’s flying environment, there is just too much information to cover. I would like to see the hour requirement increased for safety purposes.

 

[nosehair]

No, CFI'er, the FAA does not tell you how to construct your program. As long as all 141 rules are complied with, it will be approved. You may experience some difficulty geting the approval from an Inspector who is not flight-training savvy, which most of them are not, but if you educate him/her/them, and it is clear that the basic outline in 141 is followed, you can write a very flexible program. Mine is.

 

[sheps]

help for a newb

I have seen a lot of discussion on here about FSI. Can someone talk about FS Academy? I mean, I've only heard about it, and am just curious as to how everyone got there start in here. Who did you tlak to, how did you hear about the schools and whatever. thanks a lot guys.

 

[jetalc]

I have seen a lot of discussion on here about FSI. Can someone talk about FS Academy? I mean, I've only heard about it, and am just curious as to how everyone got there start in here. Who did you tlak to, how did you hear about the schools and whatever. thanks a lot guys.

That's what this discussion is about - not FlightSafety International, FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach, FL.

I also went to FSI Academy/VRB, and found the training to be excellent. Yes, the procedures can be a bit demanding, but I wanted the structure of such a program. I ran out of money, and felt what it was like to instruct elsewhere - I quickly went back to FlightSafety and became an IP and eventually an Assistant Chief. Don't regret a day of it, and the training (and subsequent instructing there) forced me to show discipline in studying and make sure I knew what I was supposed to know in order to teach it to others. I would highly recommend FSI/VRB to anybody looking for a structured environment with a school that doesn't put up with slackers or those that aren't serious about flying for a living. FlightSafety and the "fish bowl" were responsible for kicking quite a few people out of the program who were either not cut out for flying or didn't take the program seriously. Kudos to them for that.

As for the "hacks" at ASA...pretty broad term. Something about glass houses...there are hacks at all airlines.

 

[sheps]

so Jetalc, how did you first get involved with Flight Safety, was it a word of mouth thing or were you just really impressed with what they told you? how do most students end up finding out one school is better than another and subsequently attending, because it seems like there are a hell of a lot of choices out there...

 

[jetalc]

so Jetalc, how did you first get involved with Flight Safety, was it a word of mouth thing or were you just really impressed with what they told you? how do most students end up finding out one school is better than another and subsequently attending, because it seems like there are a hell of a lot of choices out there...

You're right - there were/are a ton of choices. Believe it or not, after my list of 100+ schools, I whittled it down to FSI, Comair Academy (now DCA) and a couple of other schools. The list was derived from word-of-mouth stuff as well as thumbing through flying magazines and looking at everybody's flashy little ads. When I got the list down to three schools, I sucked it up for a couple airline tickets and visited the schools. Was very impressed with Comair Academy, but more impressed with FSI. You could eat off of the maintenance hangar floor, and there was no hesitation when I asked to see the syllabus. The weather pretty much guaranteed that I could fly every day, and sometimes twice per day (for example, one dual, one solo). I didn't know at that point (I already had my PVT) what I was looking for in the syllabus, but it looked logical to me and the total package at FSI seemed like something that was right up my alley.

At that point, FSI was just starting the PFT thing with Chicago Express, ASA, ACA, and a couple others, but that's not why I enrolled. Never did do the PFT thing, although I do know quite a few people who did. It seemed like a good foundation for my flight training, and I don't believe I made a bad choice. Not every school is for every body, so make sure you shop around and look past the ads. Be VERY leary of all flight schools that have some sort of "informal arrangement" with airlines - aviation is a slippery business, and there are a lot of crooks that would LOVE to take your cashola. I found FlightSafety to be upfront, honest, high quality and tough. Would do it again in a heartbeat.