Flight Safety Academy

[huncowboy]

The guaranteed interview is the biggest scam going right now until hiring picks up.

Note to myself: Ask some former CFIs I know/knew who now are flying right seat in the RJ about this scam. I am sure they know about it.

BTW that scam was on well before the downturn of hiring... If anything than I might have called it a scam back then rather than now.

 

[bobbysamd]

The more things change, the more they stay the same

Furthermore, alot of what you stated about those sitting in the fishbowl as we called (management) it, is factual. So many of the CFI's were constantly upset at the higher ups that morale among the instructors was terribly low. I have never in my life heard more complaining from a group of people. Maybe it was justified - I do not know.

They still call it the fishbowl, eh? The morale among instructors was bad in 1992. I remember well standing outside of the Chief Pilot, Mr. B's, office for hours at a time waiting for a moment of his time. His plate-glass door was always shut tight as he proceded to ignore me. That kind of nonsense grinds at you - and it's that kind of grinding that causes people to leave. But they didn't care, apparently.

(As it turned out, the aforementioned Chief Pilot was gone about two months after he took salaries away from instructors who were receiving them, including me, put them on flight tags, and docked their paychecks to make up the difference. I was in the process of lining up a new job and was on my way out. I gave notice. One instructor was so fed up that he left his keys and walked out immediately.)

I didn't leave there after only a year for no reason - and my job-hunting efforts had started long before then - like a month after I was hired. It's pretty sad if you feel driven to look for another job after only a month and having moved two thousand miles.

That attitude however permeated into the teaching and was/is unacceptable. Students deserve better, especially with that kind of financial commitment to the institution.

Yes, they do. But, at all times, when I was with my students, they had 100% of my attention. I'm sorry to hear that the immaturity factor at FSI is still there.

There were still many positives about the place - such as good facilities and equipment. And good flight training. Once again, after having worked at FSI, ERAU and Mesa and having interviewed with and/or being associated with others, I can tell you that no flight school is perfect. As well as being pilot factories, flight schools are nonsense factories. I always advise people to talk to students and instructors at a school before making a decision. Don't speak only to the ones arrayed by the salesmen. Talk to others. The unvarnished truth should come out.

Good discussion. Anyone who has been reading this thread should be helped by hearing all sides.

 

[Swass]

I would choose ATP for the ratings and multi time. Get it done fast and start flying.

 

[Torey15]

Bobbysamd,
I agree - a good, civilized discussion without the thread being hijacked into some kind of Mesa bashfest, scab rhetoric or attack on those belonging to a pilot group without ALPA representation! Merry Christmas all....

 

[maxcackel]

Torey sound's like one of the 1% people. You know the guy that has trouble with the program and blame's other people. And to top it off ASA has the fore sight not to hire him. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror. I know all the people around me loved the school and are doing great even some at ASA.

 

[Torey15]

Whatever Potsy-made it through the entire program in five months without repeating a lesson, busting a ride or a stage check - virtually on my own.

Man, that interview for the brand new CIME FSI Academy grad is difficult - let me stick this mirror underneath your nose and ask you a couple of very serious situational awareness questions that really make applicants think hard like, "Have you ever killed anyone?" Well, what do you know, this guy is breathing and look, he's never been convicted of a felony, lets invite him to Atlanta.

Oh, by the way, there will not be a sim session during this interview to assess your IFR abilities. We will do that with 30 hours in the Seneca, plus time in each seat of the Saab 2000. We will make sure an instructor is with you at all times - we really do not care to see if you can think on your own. Don't forget, that FSI needs a big check from you before you can start - please pay for your job, I mean pay on your way out.

I chose not to be a part of that on my own accord. So take that one percent of yours and have a Merry Christmas.

 

[lymanm]

DCA

For what it's worth, I attended DCA (then Comair Academy) from 2000 to 2001. I was fresh out of highschool, and had been impressed with the glossy ads, and the free visit down there. While this isn't directly FSI related, I think it's a good idea to get a fair idea what is out there.

Pros

The training was excellent, the instructors knowlegable and were always willing to put in the free ground instruction because they knew just how much everyone was paying. Instructors were instructors - some lacked in some areas, some were excellent in others. I came in with my PPL from a P61 school, and completed my Instrument, Com/SE and CFI. I was always impressed with the quality of training and the "airline style" environment was an excellent foundation to my cockpit habits.

Cons

It was expensive. Per hour was more than your P61 FBO and the rigid P141 program did not lead to cost-saving flexibility. The aircraft were by no means pigs, but were not even close to state of the art. There was always a period during my Instrument and Com/SE where there was a shortage of aircraft, in one case going 6 days without flying. After living expenses, those 6 days add up. You get what you pay for, obviously, and I doubt I could have gone through my training as fast or with such regimented standards as I'd gone through.

Oh ya, living in Sanford sucks a$$, especially for a 19 year old!

Epilogue

I never did my CFII, nor applied to instruct at Comair, as I intended to go to school to get my BA (which I've finished 2 of 4 years currently). I currently instruct during my summers with my Comair CFI in a small town P61 operator. I would not have been able to competently handle the responsiblity and open standards had I not come from a P141 school, BUT I cannot see how CFIs in P141 schools learn how to make decisions as one does in a P61 environment, as there is zero flexibility to tailor flights to specific student problems.

Based on my experience, combining P61 decision making and 141 discipline is the way to go, but that's just me. To each unto their own.

First post, woo-hoo!

 

[asapilot]

a few comments and corrections...

For the most part, I'd agree with bobbysamd regarding FSI. I attended from '96-'98, going in with my Private and about 75 hours. I haven't been back since nor do I have much contact with anyone there, so I can't say how much has really changed. When I was there however, the facilities and equipment were excellent. You could count on properly maintained aircraft and rooms to use for study. Of course, as Torey mentioned, your instructor will dictate your experience more than any other factor. If you're not getting what you pay for, speak up and get a new one. That's true of all flight schools however, it's not particular to FSI. The training will prepare you well for 121-type operations, so if that's your goal, you should look seriously at FSI. It's true that some of the attitudes that prevail from the higher-ups do make life difficult, especially when you become an instructor. It's just a fact, take it or leave it. Everyone responds to different things, but if you're looking for good training, you could do a lot worse than FSI. It's also true that you shouldn't go because of the "guaranteed interview", "fast-track", "job placement" or whatever they're advertising these days. You may have some advantages being an FSI alum, but you can only count on yourself.

I have to take exception to a few other comments made by Torey however...

ASA has some of the biggest hacks in the industry currently flying for them

All my comments about ASA are truthful

Unless you've worked at ASA for any length of time, I don't think you're in a position to judge either the quality of our pilots or the accuracy of your own statement. I understand that you're way over-generalizing and you said later than you didn't mean it to reflect on the entire group, but how can it not? I will be the first to agree that we do have some huge tools flying for us, but out of all of them, only a very few are FSI grads. I too must be a hack in your eyes since I came to ASA with low time. Like bobbysamd said, most of the FSI folks came to ASA with quite a bit more than 200-250hours. Those folks all came from another school up the coast a little ways. Yes we do have some people that should have never made it to a 121 operator, but so does every other airline. While there's no substitute for experience, there is also no substitute for personal preparation. Give people some credit, a lot of guys/gals come out of FSI very well-prepared for the experience they'll have in their next job.

 

[bobbysamd]

Training programs in general

This is a general comment about all schools, and is geared especially for those who believe they were ill prepared after finishing training.

A training program is designed to lay a solid foundation for and equip you with the basic skills needed to do your job. No training program can equip you beyond that level. After completing training, it is experience that, hopefully, improves your knowledge and hones your skills. The old expression, experience is the best teacher, holds true. Just as the caption under the picture in the FOI notes, an instructor cannot open up the head of his/her trainee and pour in experience; experience must be obtained.

I make these comments after re-reading Torey's FSI training experience. The thing that keeps coming back is the fact that he obviously passed his practical exams. I'm assuming that FSI still had 141 self-examining authority when he was there; we had just obtained it while I was there in 1991-92. While some would argue that self-examining authority erodes or compromises the quality of training, he still had to demonstrate a minimum level of competence to receive his tickets, i.e. sufficient proficiency and knowledge to exercise the privileges granted to him. Not necessarily "outstanding" or "Ph.D" proficiency and knowledge.

(Situations where 141 self-examining authority has compromised or eroded training quality are those when higher-ups order stage check pilots to pass certain people and/or where the higher-ups are paranoid and frightened that they will lose self-examining because they feel too many students are busting. See, e.g., the recent American Flyers situation in Chicago.)

Now, if he felt inadequate to instruct after earning his CFI at FSI, I would note again that any training program equips you with the basic skills needed to do your job. A CFI really does learn on the job. That's why instructing is such a valuable learning experience - for the instructor. To this day, it still blows my mind how much I learned as a flight instructor.

Absolutely your instructor dictates your training experience, but your wet certificates prove that you have met at least a minimum standard. It is then up to you to take what you've learned and run with it.

 

[phishn@daves]

Hey Bobby!!!

I always know when I see your name under training it's going to be about FSI.

It just cracks me up that's all!!

I went there too in 1998! I also agree it has some of the best training, with the amount of a/c alone I was flying sometimes three times a day. The point being, that's all I was doing, flying and hanging around people who were flying, I did my PVT, COMM, SE, ME, Instr., there in under 6 mos.

I left there and felt very confident about my flying skills, of course all that has gone to Sh!t now that I have been gone for a number of years, but at the time I was very comfortable. Whichever flight school you choose, try to fly as much as possible and ask questions, talk to different instructors and students while you are there, everyone's experience is different, and you'll save a lot of money.

Good Luck and Fly safe!