Flight Options

[Captain Overs]

Does anyone know anything about Flight Options? I heard they are hiring contract CA's off the street to fly some of their jets and they have SIC people who have yet to upgrade. Anyone?

 

[Lrjet55]

Doubtful

 

[Captain Overs]

I have a friend who flys the Legacy. He has flown with off the street contract CA's.

 

[BE40Driver]

The last day for contract pilots at Flight options will be Feb. 11 for both Legacy and Cit.X.

 

[Captain Overs]

Thanks. Is Flight Options hiring?

 

[On Your Six]

The last day for contract pilots at Flight options will be Feb. 11 for both Legacy and Cit.X.

Is this when the GIV, 601 and F50 pilots will start their transition over to the Legacy & X fleets? How long will that transition take (i.e., how long before a GIV pilot will have to give up his "coveted" GIV seat...)?

 

[Galaxy]

They cant move those guys and gals until the contracts run out on the plane as the owners are not being forces to leave their current contracts. They are just not offered to renew them. Not quite sure where they all will go? We dont have and we are not getting enough legacy's to house all those folks..I guess there will be some highly paid hawker and beechjet pilots..

 

[On Your Six]

They cant move those guys and gals until the contracts run out on the plane as the owners are not being forces to leave their current contracts. They are just not offered to renew them. Not quite sure where they all will go? We dont have and we are not getting enough legacy's to house all those folks..I guess there will be some highly paid hawker and beechjet pilots..

How many Legacies are you expecting to have on the property this year (and total)? Will the Legacies have FAs? How many X's are expected total?

 

[Lrjet55]

Contract Capt's is a little different. I knew some of the contract Challenger guys that worked there. For the most part none of the Frac's will hire of the street captains anymore.

We did at NJA but its hard to imagine a time when that will be necessary again.

 

[longrangekiller]

Flight Options has hired ONLY NINE (9) in the last eight months. FO is down to FOUR (4) operational Citation 3's. C-2, C-5, and C-3 pilots are in transition now as well as some 800A guys and gals. So, there is no need to hire now or for the forseeable future except that former RTA guys and gals are quiting or getting themselves fired at the cyclic rate. The current body of FO spawned managers are making sure that all are assimulated.

 

[matchthehatch]

Thanks. Is Flight Options hiring?

I wouldn't give a Letter of Recommendation to my mother if she begged me to help her get hired, unless her career aspirations were limited to being a Beechjet SIC for 5 years while struggling to support her family.

Can you tell I'm unhappy here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. If I don't like it I should quit. I'm working on it.

Take care

 

[Fracster]

I wouldn't give a Letter of Recommendation to my mother if she begged me to help her get hired, unless her career aspirations were limited to being a Beechjet SIC for 5 years while struggling to support her family.

Same at NJA, sort of one of those "you wouldnt wish this on your worst enemy scenarios"...well maybe my worst enemy.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Not So Fast...

..I guess there will be some highly paid hawker and beechjet pilots..

What makes you think any former large cabin pilots would remain "highly paid" (your words)? There is absolutely NOTHING in place (can you say "contract"?) that compels managment to maintain anyone's pay at a certain level.

I envision the transition going something like this:

Dear Mr. Pilot-

You will be pleased to know that we are on schedule with our aircraft consolidation plan. As expected, the last owner contract on the <insert aircraft type here> has expired. The last scheduled trip is this Friday. If you are scheduled to fly this trip, please enjoy the experience and take an extra 30 seconds after postflight to reflect on your years crewing <insert aircraft type here>.

As you may be aware, there are no PIC positions available at this time. You are being offered an SIC position in the <insert aircraft type here>. If you accept this position, your compensation will be at year <insert years of seniority here> SIC pay for that aircraft. If you require initial training for <insert aircraft type here>, you will be required to sign the obligatory training agreement. As PIC positions become available, you will be eligible to bid for those positions PROVIDED you a) have a standing bid on file; b) the 12 month seat lock in your SIC position has expired.

Thank you for your contribution to Safety, Service and Profitability, and your<insert years of seniority here> of dedicated service.

R. Sullivan
Director, Human Resources


ASAP

 

[Galaxy]

Hey, some of those guys have a higher sen# than me and make the pay due to the FOK(friends of Ken) pgm. They get what they want-they always have..Just watch this great DEB chicky we inherited from RTA-Thanks. What about all the original FLOPS FO's that dont get PIC pay. Seems that when RTA came here all of you were PIC's-like that was fair! Don't even get me started on contract pilots..

As far as ASAP-you are preaching to the choir brother. Pretty much as soon as RTA's great mgt team came in I have been in favor of a union. Would not care for the teamsters as they have doing a bang up job for our NJA friends. But something is better than nothing...Funny thing is the biggest oponent that I knew of during the start of the vote is now a 180 degree turn and jumping up and down promoting ASAP. As soon as I saw the ASAP website I have been in contact with them. They need addresses for FO pilots, so if you have an "IN" with a way to get it red rover red rover hey send it on over.....

As far as the transition letter I think you are right on it.. More firings for stupid things..The squeeze on tier 3's and possible tier 2's to make a few more quit the game or move. I don't buy this slide to poverty for one second! You are dead on pay, time off, everything will be completely up to management. -ASAP is looking for leaders-so if you are interested in leading FLOPS to them--"Sign Up".

 

[TOGA]

FlOps has been using Legacy contractors (PIC and/or SIC) since they began operating the type in late Nov of '03. Contractors have been offered continued contract work if they pay for their own 135 checkride. I don't know of any who are willing to pay the ~$8500. If they don't, 2/16 is the last day of contracting, as Part 135 begins on the 17th.

 

[Galaxy]

One Word....

GOOD! Go back to the commuter you came from...let us fly our own airplanes..Doesnt the contract you have at the commuter you got your EMB type from have a clause about the company hiring contract pilots to make more money than you? I can't wait till the 17th..I wanna see the fiasco first hand.. I can't wait till ASAP comes walking into here and puts a stop an all these issues..

 

[pilot error]

GOOD! Go back to the commuter you came from...let us fly our own airplanes..Doesnt the contract you have at the commuter you got your EMB type from have a clause about the company hiring contract pilots to make more money than you? I can't wait till the 17th..I wanna see the fiasco first hand.. I can't wait till ASAP comes walking into here and puts a stop an all these issues..

that was a lot of words.

 

[Captain Overs]

I'm surprised he could string that many words together to complete a sentence. And why is he pissed at the contract pilots? He should be pissed at his company for screwing over his fellow co-workers by not offering those spots to them.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Galaxy; I agree with your assessment. However, I think the word fiasco is too soft when attempting to describe the degree of corporate failure we, as an employee group, face. Given the current middle management team’s penchant for stupidity, I believe now that the Flight Options transition to Part 135 operations will be a debacle. By that I mean the company will suffer a sudden, complete, corporate collapse. When that happens, we will all need to duck and cover because the Raytheon Red Team cometh and heads will roll. An audit of every aspect of company operations will take place down to explaining every overtime day paid to the pilots and every nickle spent airlining pilots about the country only to sit standby without an aircraft while other pilots come to work early or stay late for overtime.

Of course, given the bad blood between Flight Options and the Cleveland FSDO, you can standby for fun with a complete FAA audit with 30 days of the the transition. I can imagin a lot but I am having a hard time coming to terms with just how big the FAA fine against Flight Options will be.

It is my opinion that the pilot violation (casuality) rate will be very high and expensive for the individual pilot.

Maybe the VP of Flight Operations is the lucky one. If there is any credence to the rumors, he could be back with his buddy before the end of Feb.

 

[TOGA]

Wow, I just spent 20 minutes composing a lengthy response & the freakin' board dumped it!!

Cliff notes: I agree with all your posts, although the 'go back to your commuter' jab was immature and misdirected. Get ASAP in here, ASAP! Get rid of contractors for good (don't fool yourselves into thinking this'll be the last of 'em). Get the union in here, or you'll become fall guys for the company's mismanagement. Whether you like unions or not, you guys are in a position of desperate need for one for so many reasons. Some of those reasons are not so obvious. For example, there's a program called (ironically) ASAP that keeps you from being fall guys for the company's mistakes, or your own. It's like ASRS, only way better. I hope you guys come out of this whole mess (that's what the 135 changeover is very likely to become) smelling like roses. DO NOT BUST REGS FOR YOUR COMPANY . . . THEY WILL NOT GO TO BAT FOR YOU AGAINST THE FAA. Any reg, ever. Good luck!

(The long version was way better)

 

[leardawg]

Maybe the VP of Flight Operations is the lucky one. If there is any credence to the rumors, he could be back with his buddy before the end of Feb.[/QUOTE]

K.R. is on the Board of Directors of the company which took over the Mercury FBO chain. He and Mike Rossi have been leading an effort to acquire additional FBOs and expand the chain. There is also an indication that his plans have something to do with one of the new Very Light Jets nearing certification (Adam or Eclipse). The 2 together would indicate plans for a new fractional or charter operation with a supporting FBO chain. It would not surprise me to see J.S., as well as many former original Flight Options pilots and personel end up with such an operation. Stay tuned!

 

[Galaxy]

A few more than one word.

I was going to leave it at one word but I got heated and it didn't stop there.

Where to start with the flames......
CaptOvers..you asked a bit back if FLOPS was hiring..Street CA's. I say sure we are--quit your job and come on over we will be more than happy to type you in a Beechjet (which you will fly the rest of your life here). Just sign this training contract. You will also get to wear 4 bars-thats the CA game. Bad news is your pay will be an FO pay for 6 months(Eric G would never lie to you, oh yea and per diem is just like salary-you never spend it here). Upgrades are super fast here and you will love it. When can I do you the favor and walk your resume in? Then you can really type and post of what is going on at FLOPS....

As for being pissed at the contract guys--I have never said a bad word to any of them I have met-they all have been nice folks. I know its the company's deal with them. It does take two to tango in the game. They took the deal that FLOPS offered and jumped to the top of the game. I saw the need for contract pilots to get the program off the ground and assist our folks in getting the training they needed. But when is enough enough? TOGA- believe me I know we need a union here and with the morale as it is it will be here soon enough- Your words of it is the company's fault this is here not mine-but yet you continue to benifit from it? Sounds a lot like the guys that crossed the lines for eastern many years ago. While likely you and I are not old enough to have worked for an airline back then. I still get checked if I am on the "list" from the crusty CA's when J-seating on planes. So dont tell me aviation is too big to forget and forgive..You are just giving the company a crutch to stand on and getting paid a hefty wage to do it too. I stand by my attitude of go back to the commuter you came from..If you are part of the problem and not part of the solution then the shoe must fit--wear it. Too many CA's have been pushed back to FO in COEX and AMR to accomodate AA and mainline COA guys-so make sure you folks help them out with their new job while they lean to fly what they call "Little Planes" again. How would you like it if I had an emb type and scored a sweet deal at your job flying as a contract CA. This would stop you from upgrading to the seat and prevent someone else from getting hired.. But hey your airline doesn't have to train me!!! What a deal for them...Oh yea wait--your union would never let that happen to you- would it? If you like it here at FLOPS, come on over and get paid accordingly..Be glad to see ya!

As for doing the CYA thing.. Been doing that for years, I keep copies of everything, never fly overweight like some bozo's. I even keep the stupid voice mails from the past and emails. Do everything by the book..I cover for nobody. I refuse trips all the time to not cover up for scheduling mishaps--oops sorry that puts me over the duty day-then they try to have JS auth the extension--I just throw in the fatigue card.. Its over after that.. Most of the pilots do the same here--but the hero's will be found and punished in due time...Pilots will kill this company in a few years by just doing their job within the 135 regs, also with the help of some serious mismanagement.
We have nothing to do with the CLE FSDO-(other than it will be the one to put the locks on the doors)-The tickit is from Bighampton, NY..thats the FSDO that keeps approving this silly stuff....

So, while I am sure you are some nice guys-one of you doesnt work here so what would you know about it here? The other is part of the problem and not part of the solution--As long as you are remaining as a contract pilot you may as well do something handy like print up some ASAP brochures and hand them out while you are in the FBO. The netjet guys will love you for it too. Feel free to also help us unionize as they wont fire you...

 

[Captain Overs]

Galaxy,


If you read my original post I never mentioned anything about wanting to be a contract CA for Flight Ops. If you think so please feel free to read my post again. I was simply posting something that I heard. I found it hard to believe that the company would continue to do this. I posted to get a view point from a person like you who is in the know.

As far as you basically calling TOGA a "Scab", I disagree. Last I knew there was not a picket line that was being crossed. I'm sure he has his reasons for flying contract work, but to put him in the same category as someone from Eastern who crossed is just out of touch with reality. Maybe you have some unresolved issues with people who have crossed in the past or something, but this is apples to oranges. You should be taking your "Beefs" up with management instead of someone who is trying to make a buck.

 

[Galaxy]

Does anyone know anything about Flight Options? I heard they are hiring contract CA's off the street to fly some of their jets and they have SIC people who have yet to upgrade. Anyone?

While I read your post it clearly asked to me if we are we hiring. If so are we hiring contract CA's. Now either you are looking for a job or just heard another great rumor in that EMB cockpit and wanted to cash in on our great mismanagement.....Your words-not mine--
Now you have your post from someone in the "know"


I never called him a scab but in effect now that our folks are trained and on the line it is a very relative term. While no picket line was crossed in effect the same thing was accomplished. A few people (Contract Pilots) looked out for their own good instead of the good of the company. The company used them as a crutch to keep them operating the way they wish to do business. The pilots are effected from the guy/gals seat he is taking right down to the bottom third of the pack. About the unresolved issues? Life is calm and cool here...I already have a fallback business running.. I just love to rant and rave and watch the bilge pumps lose the battle on this stinky sinking ship.....Like I said-you will love it here--let be help you out and walk that resume in for you..

 

[Captain Overs]

Does anyone know anything about Flight Options? I heard they are hiring contract CA's off the street to fly some of their jets and they have SIC people who have yet to upgrade. Anyone?

....and they have SIC people who have yet to upgrade....


I guess I should have put that line in bold. My statement was more out of disbelief than anything else. I guess you should have known that since you seem to know what everyone is thinking before they say it. No thanks on walking a resume. I'd rather ask if you want fries with that. But then again you'd already know that since you know what I think.

 

[Galaxy]

So if it surprises you so much then how in the world did my response to contract CA's surprise you?

Yes I do know what you think-it was part of that great fuel savings bonus I got over x-mas. I spent it on Dion Warwicks psychic friends home study course...

You will never know how glad I am all that hard work I did studying for that ESP test has finally paid off..Right here on the internet...
Thank you Dion and I hope that Madam Cloie' gets out of prison soon.. I have a great business startup for her--its selling HOPE to FLOPS pilots and a sense of humor to the commuter guys..

help better get here ASAP..

 

[TOGA]

Galaxy -

I'd be interested to see what would've happened had the tables been turned. Can you honestly say you'd have turned down the opportunity? You're comparison between contractors and SCABs holds no water and, in fact, says far more about you than anything else.

 

[gunfyter]

What was Options paying for X contractors?