Flight Options

[FracCapt]

I live in a city that has American, Continental, Southwest, Delta, Frontier, American Eagle, American Connection, Skywest, Mesa & ASA with dozens of flights per day, every day to every major city, but I am considered a TIER 2, which means I will make it home before 9 PM local on day 8 80% of the time and home before 11 PM 90% of the time.

My domicile is listed as a Tier 1, but it only means the goals are 2000 local 80% of the time and 2200 local 90% of the time. Still no good. I usually don't get home until 2300. Occasionally I get home before 2000, but it's not more than about 15-20% of the time....and only twice in the past year have I gotten home before 1800. Got lucky those times...ended up a 45 minute drive from home.

 

[PHX767]

The Brain Surgeons at work again

JetCapt69, thanks for pointing that out. They have FLL and PBI on tier 2 along with FAT and RAP. Confirms my belief that none of the logistics coneheads have ever been out of Ohio.

Now, does tiers 1 and 2 add up to 50? And would this be the new "gateways"???

Inquiring minds want to know....

 

[Frac Daddy]

JetCapt69, thanks for pointing that out. They have FLL and PBI on tier 2 along with FAT and RAP. Confirms my belief that none of the logistics coneheads have ever been out of Ohio.

Now, does tiers 1 and 2 add up to 50? And would this be the new "gateways"???

Inquiring minds want to know....

Doesn't FLL have just as much traffic as MIA?

 

[FracCapt]

Doesn't FLL have just as much traffic as MIA?

Even if they do, I think the difference is that MIA is a hub(AA), and there are tons of nonstops out of there all over the country. Not as many destinations are served out of FLL. Of course, this is just a guess...I have a feeling it was more of a pin the tail on the map of the US scenario that made them come up with the different Tiers. My domicile(listed as a Tier 1) is a sort of a mini-hub for one major, but is served by every major I can think of, and probably has over 800 flights(mostly domestic, probably about 10-15% international) a day....

 

[flyr4hire]

There's more to day 8

than just the time we get home. What always chaps me is how the schedulers manage day 8 for MAX company benefit with little or no regard for the crews (and with little or no ability to look and plan any further out than 4-6 hours). Maybe that sounded confusing, here's what I mean, this example has been pretty typical for 75% of my tours:
Day 1, airlines at 0700ish, back-up the clock for travel and check-in and I'mm gettin an early start.
Days 2-7, mostly morning/early morning show times (the dreaded early morning cycle), or to have the later morning times moved up after the first brief comes out. one hour turns and 14 hour days the norm.
Day 8, 1200 show for a 1400 departure (wake up at 6 or 7 anyway), fly 2 or 3 legs, owner(s) always late for the live leg(s), nice, long, liesurely turns between the legs, and arrive at my domicile airport at 2100 thus missing one goal (2000hrs) but meeting the 90% goal. Oh yeah, one hour drive home (the most dangerous part of any tour, that time spent on the roads), at night, and after being up for 14 hours already.
I must say that it appears as though some effort is being made at looking a little further out for the crew travel on day 8, have been seeing more and more airline requests popping up on my crackberry prior to day 8 which means that at least someone is thinking ahead. Hate to raise a problem without offering a suggestion, so here goes: hire more friggin pilots so there is more flexability in the schedules, with more pilots you don't have to squeeze them for every available minute. Oh yeah, forgot to add... not much pressure on the company to do that if everyone is gonna work overtime though.

 

[DesertFalcon]

Do you know a pilot at Options? Reccomendations from current Options pilots are HEAVILY weighed.

Actually, I do have a friend who works for "Options". Hopefully, they will call me soon for an interview?

 

[Dr. B]

Options Domiciles

I was just hired by Options, still in training.

You are asked to disclose where you want to domicile during the interview. To my knowledge there is not a 50 city list. The old criteria still applies, they want at least 3 airlines, and 6 daily departures. In addition, the domicile must be approved by the logistics department. You will know if your choice is approved before you are offered a job. They prefer the bigger cities for obvious reasons. Whoever that was that asked if Vegas applies, yes it does. I know because I have already been approved to relocate there from my current domicile - Dallas.

The contract is real, I believe that I was in one of the first classes to sign it. It is a very simple 1 year pro-rated $12,000 training contract. In my class, 2 went to Beechjet, 3 to CJ1. Seniority or experience in new class seemed to have nothing to do with it. I.E. oldest got CJ1. Pay first year regardless of aircraft is $34,00/year plus $8,100 in perdiem.

The key to getting an interview is having a friend who is willing to personally go to bat for you in the office with the people who are responsible for interviewing you.

Good Luck

 

[Frac Daddy]

Actually, I do have a friend who works for "Options". Hopefully, they will call me soon for an interview?

Falcon,

I guess I should have been more clear. Knowing somebody there is not enough. Like Dr. B said, your freind has to "go to bat for you" if you want that interview. Good luck.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Just curious...

What always chaps me is how the schedulers manage day 8 for MAX company benefit with little or no regard for the crews...hire more friggin pilots so there is more flexability in the schedules, with more pilots you don't have to squeeze them for every available minute. Oh yeah, forgot to add... not much pressure on the company to do that if everyone is gonna work overtime though.

From the management perspective: isn't maximizing asset utilization part of making a business successful? Let's take as a given that proper rest for pilots on duty has to be the number one priority in crew scheduling...safety must be paramount. But getting home at 9:00 or even 10:00 on day 8, instead of a target of 8:00? Is that so bad? When I was a flying professionally I certainly liked getting home from trips in time for dinner, but...that simply wasn't part of the job description. You have the benefit of a schedule.

Private aviation is about providing the customer a service, one that demands flexibility. Keeping employees happy is certainly part of the formula for a successful business, but aviation has proven itself over and over to have little tolerance for undisciplined asset utilization practices.

 

[Frac Daddy]

From the management perspective: isn't maximizing asset utilization part of making a business successful? Let's take as a given that proper rest for pilots on duty has to be the number one priority in crew scheduling...safety must be paramount. But getting home at 9:00 or even 10:00 on day 8, instead of a target of 8:00? Is that so bad? When I was a flying professionally I certainly liked getting home from trips in time for dinner, but...that simply wasn't part of the job description. You have the benefit of a schedule.

Private aviation is about providing the customer a service, one that demands flexibility. Keeping employees happy is certainly part of the formula for a successful business, but aviation has proven itself over and over to have little tolerance for undisciplined asset utilization practices.

True. I must add that my Day 8 travel situation has improved for me since this initiative has begun. I have no problem working on Day 8. I get paid for it. But if there aren't any trips or my plane is broken, there has been an effort to get me home at a reasonable hour. I am hardly a "company-man" but I must give credit where credit is due.

 

[matchthehatch]

Quote:

"so here goes: hire more friggin pilots so there is more flexability in the schedules, with more pilots you don't have to squeeze them for every available minute. Oh yeah, forgot to add... not much pressure on the company to do that if everyone is gonna work overtime though."

As long as these guys continue to work day upon day of overtime, mgmt. will not upgrade, nor hire sufficient pilots. I understand the need to make a little extra money to help out with expenses, but pilots should consider their fellow pilots on occasion.

 

[DesertFalcon]

Falcon,

I guess I should have been more clear. Knowing somebody there is not enough. Like Dr. B said, your freind has to "go to bat for you" if you want that interview. Good luck.

Frac...

Well, I guess it comes down to when you put down your reference, using the online application, will the friend concur with your reference to him/her?

In other words, will your reference really refer you to the job?

 

[Dep676]

I was just hired by Options, still in training.

You are asked to disclose where you want to domicile during the interview. To my knowledge there is not a 50 city list. The old criteria still applies, they want at least 3 airlines, and 6 daily departures. In addition, the domicile must be approved by the logistics department. You will know if your choice is approved before you are offered a job. They prefer the bigger cities for obvious reasons. Whoever that was that asked if Vegas applies, yes it does. I know because I have already been approved to relocate there from my current domicile - Dallas.

The contract is real, I believe that I was in one of the first classes to sign it. It is a very simple 1 year pro-rated $12,000 training contract. In my class, 2 went to Beechjet, 3 to CJ1. Seniority or experience in new class seemed to have nothing to do with it. I.E. oldest got CJ1. Pay first year regardless of aircraft is $34,00/year plus $8,100 in perdiem.

The key to getting an interview is having a friend who is willing to personally go to bat for you in the office with the people who are responsible for interviewing you.

Good Luck

I don't believe they are CJ1's. I think they are the original CJ's.

 

[Dr. B]

You are correct, they are CJ's my mistake.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

I'm probably gonna get my weiner slapped for this, but it doesn't bother me.

To all of the Options guys that work overtime, just realize you aren't actually saving the world, like they lead you to believe. You are making it harder on yourselves and the rest of us. You might think you are doing the company a favor, but you are really screwing the rest of us. What we need is bodies and new airplanes, upgrades and new SICs. When you whores go out and work overtime, it makes the company more willing to offer it because of guys like you. They hire less, upgrade less, and make the rest of us work our a$$es off for 14 hours, 7 days of the tour.

I've run into guys on day nine and ten on the road, and generally end up pi$$ing them off when I tell them what I think of OT. That doesn't bother me, because you guys are making my life tougher on the road, and I'm going to let you know about it. Call me what you will, chew my tail out, my opinion won't change. And I think the majority of our guys feel the same way.

 

[kingtut]

Ot.

Not taking side here. Just the facts. OT is cheaper than hiring more pilots. Why, to hire and train a new SIC regardless of acft, 75 to 80K before he flies the first IOE leg. And then, there is the issue of benefits and company contributions.

You can pay a bunch of guys OT, almost two years worth at average Frac industry SIC pay, and still save money as a company. Do the math times ten or 20 new hires and there ya go.

The pilots are gonna do it and the company knowns it. Pilots, like everyone else can always use a littel boost in the check book.

Be pissed all ya like (I agree with ya BTW.) but its not going to change anytime soon. JET PASS, M Cards, Jet Cards, whatever. Standby.

 

[Dep676]

Not taking side here. Just the facts. OT is cheaper than hiring more pilots. Why, to hire and train a new SIC regardless of acft, 75 to 80K before he flies the first IOE leg. And then, there is the issue of benefits and company contributions.

You can pay a bunch of guys OT, almost two years worth at average Frac industry SIC pay, and still save money as a company. Do the math times ten or 20 new hires and there ya go.

The pilots are gonna do it and the company knowns it. Pilots, like everyone else can always use a littel boost in the check book.

Be pissed all ya like (I agree with ya BTW.) but its not going to change anytime soon. JET PASS, M Cards, Jet Cards, whatever. Standby.

Where do you get a figure like 75to 80K for training? They are going to send you to school for a type if you do not have one. If you do they are going to send you to recurrent. I would think at the most it would be 25k counting hotel, airlines and the type or recurrent. No where near 75 to 80k. Just do not see that adding up.

BTW I don't think any of should do OT either.

 

[matchthehatch]

Amen, brother.

I'm probably gonna get my weiner slapped for this, but it doesn't bother me.

To all of the Options guys that work overtime, just realize you aren't actually saving the world, like they lead you to believe. You are making it harder on yourselves and the rest of us. You might think you are doing the company a favor, but you are really screwing the rest of us. What we need is bodies and new airplanes, upgrades and new SICs. When you whores go out and work overtime, it makes the company more willing to offer it because of guys like you. They hire less, upgrade less, and make the rest of us work our a$$es off for 14 hours, 7 days of the tour.

I've run into guys on day nine and ten on the road, and generally end up pi$$ing them off when I tell them what I think of OT. That doesn't bother me, because you guys are making my life tougher on the road, and I'm going to let you know about it. Call me what you will, chew my tail out, my opinion won't change. And I think the majority of our guys feel the same way.

Amen to that brother. We need more guys like you (and me) with enough ba11s to educate the rest of the pilot group on the drawbacks to working so much OT.

 

[matchthehatch]

Not taking side here. Just the facts. OT is cheaper than hiring more pilots. Why, to hire and train a new SIC regardless of acft, 75 to 80K before he flies the first IOE leg. And then, there is the issue of benefits and company contributions.

You can pay a bunch of guys OT, almost two years worth at average Frac industry SIC pay, and still save money as a company. Do the math times ten or 20 new hires and there ya go.

The pilots are gonna do it and the company knowns it. Pilots, like everyone else can always use a littel boost in the check book.

Be pissed all ya like (I agree with ya BTW.) but its not going to change anytime soon. JET PASS, M Cards, Jet Cards, whatever. Standby.

Dude, you are totally missing the point. You are correct that the company saves a buttload of money by paying overtime as opposed to hiring more pilots. While I don't want to start an "us vs. them" war with management, I do believe that they would pay us in ears of corn and chickens if we would accept it. The point is this: Management will do whatever it takes to save money. Pilots who work overtime may be doing themselves and their wallets a favor, but they are doing the vast majority of us a great disservice. I realize, sadly, that we may never have a union on property, but I would like to see the pilots look out for each other BEFORE looking out for those in suits.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Dude, you are totally missing the point. You are correct that the company saves a buttload of money by paying overtime as opposed to hiring more pilots. While I don't want to start an "us vs. them" war with management, I do believe that they would pay us in ears of corn and chickens if we would accept it. The point is this: Management will do whatever it takes to save money. Pilots who work overtime may be doing themselves and their wallets a favor, but they are doing the vast majority of us a great disservice. I realize, sadly, that we may never have a union on property, but I would like to see the pilots look out for each other BEFORE looking out for those in suits.

I think you are missing the point. I don't go to work "for the vast majority of us". I work to support myself and my family. If I need or want to work a few OT days for extra money, so be it. You guys can "educate" me all you want, but I just don't care.

Also, if you think having a union will change things, you are wrong. I have a couple of friends that are at FedEx. Even though they are happy, there is not as much movement as they would like to see because a lot of the old guys are picking up a ton of OT to pad their pension when the retire. Again, even at a unionized company, most people do what is best for themselves.