Flight Options Pilots Take Monthly Pay Cut

[gunfyter]

There is no problem with the pay. Because of the change... 40 hrs from 2007 will be paid in the first check in 2008.

This might make Options books look better for 2007.

To make you feel better they could add another payday on the last Friday in December for just 40 hrs. Then shift the NEXT payday friday from Jan 4 2008 to Jan 11, 2008.

This is Probably what they should do... because many people don't understand there is no real change in pay.

Grump is right. If they had started the new system in january... no one would be confused.

 

[bgaviator]

excuse me?

Nice work family guy. Someone needed to slap this guy down.

Back to our regular programming.

Someone needed to slap this guy down? Are you referring to me? If yes, then why would you make a statement like that? I find it amusing how absolutely no one can post anything on these boards without someone coming along and completely trying to make you feel like crap for your opinion. Opinions are opinions....everyone has one...if you don't like mine, say so and tell me why....but don't go insulting me in the process.

 

[gunfyter]

He was being Facetious

 

[simba]

Still missing 40 hours in the first 6 months

If you went from bi-monthly pay (paid twice a month) to bi-weekly pay (paid every two weeks) then the difference is simple. Bi-monthly means you will get 24 paychecks in a year, bi-weekly means you will get 26 paychecks in a year. (some months you would get 3 paychecks)

The year end numbers would work out the same, but the bi-weekly paycheck would be slightly smaller.

Is this what you are describing, or something else?

I stand corrected. Re: bi-monthly and semi-monthly. However the point is still the same. You're looking at it all wrong.

The company is indeed basing the change in the fiscal year. As well as the way the pay days fall on the calendar. There are exactly two weeks (14 days between the last semi-monthly check and the first bi-weekly check.

There is no problem with the pay. Because of the change... 40 hrs from 2007 will be paid in the first check in 2008.

This might make Options books look better for 2007.

To make you feel better they could add another payday on the last Friday in December for just 40 hrs. Then shift the NEXT payday friday from Jan 4 2008 to Jan 11, 2008…

This is Probably what they should do... because many people don't understand there is no real change in pay.

Grump is right. If they had started the new system in january... no one would be confused.

You are correct in the fact that the last week of Dec 2007 will be paid on Jan 4th, 2008. That was never in question. It has everything to do with the FIRST 6 MONTHS of this year. You will be loosing 40 hours in the first six months.

I’ll break it down again. The FIRST 6 MONTHS look like this:

On March 31st you will have received 6 semi-monthly checks. Each check has 86.67 hours on it. That is a total of 520 hours. The first bi-weekly check is April 13th followed by 5 more. 6 checks with 80 hours on each one for a total of 480 hours.

Even people that attended public schools are taught addition. 520 + 480 = 1000.

1000 hours from the FIRST 6 MONTHS + 1040 from the last 6 months = 2040 hours for the year 2007.

WHERE ARE THE OTHER 40 HOURS ???

No those hours are not the last week in December. We all realize that those hours will be on Jan 4th, 2008's check.

Break out your Calendars and calculators.

 

[frmrBUFFdrvr]

WHERE ARE THE OTHER 40 HOURS ??? No those hours are not the last week in December.

Break out your Calendars and calculators.

If you look at a calender, those 40 hours are the last week of JUNE, which is a full week. Your last pay period in the first six months will end on Jun 22, so the last week week of the month is paid in the first pay period of the second half. And the last week of December will be paid in the first pay period of the next year.

You aren't loosing any money. You just won't have one weeks worth of it on your 2007 tax return because it will be paid in 2008.

 

[gunfyter]

I found the 40 hrs.

But let me show it to you again.

Instead of adding the payday to the last Friday in December as I suggested earlier...

Lets add a payday for 40 hrs to Jun 29. Then the next payday will be Jul 13th. Your last payday of the yr will be Dec 28 instead of the 21st.
=======================================================

The way it stands now you are paid for 51 weeks in 2007 but have one week (40 hrs) owed and not paid until 2008. You'll save on Taxes this way.

If they make the change I suggest you will be paid all 52 weeks earned during 2007. But will have nothing coming to you from 2007 in your first 2008 paycheck

 

[simba]

I found the 40 hrs.

But let me show it to you again.

Instead of adding the payday to the last Friday in December as I suggested earlier...

Lets add a payday for 40 hrs to Jun 29. Then the next payday will be Jul 13th. Your last payday of the yr will be Dec 28 instead of the 21st.
=======================================================

The way it stands now you are paid for 51 weeks in 2007 but have one week (40 hrs) owed and not paid until 2008. You'll save on Taxes this way.

If they make the change I suggest you will be paid all 52 weeks earned during 2007. But will have nothing coming to you from 2007 in your first 2008 paycheck

OK... I thought that would explain it too. However, if you look in the Flight Options Employee Handbook (as well as a few SOP's) you will find that we are paid to date. G.M. has verified this and has said that it will always be that way. Our pay schedule is not one week behind or a pay period behind like everyone else in the free world. That means that the hours you worked yesterday you were paid for today.

Once I discovered that, only then did I understand that they are STEALING 40 hours from every employee.

Then I checked my Outlook calender and found that we would indeed be given those 40 hours back... in 2010.

 

[frmrBUFFdrvr]

OK... I thought that would explain it too. However, if you look in the Flight Options Employee Handbook (as well as a few SOP's) you will find that we are paid to date. G.M. has verified this and has said that it will always be that way. Our pay schedule is not one week behind or a pay period behind like everyone else in the free world. That means that the hours you worked yesterday you were paid for today.

Once I discovered that, only then did I understand that they are STEALING 40 hours from every employee.

Then I checked my Outlook calender and found that we would indeed be given those 40 hours back... in 2010.

Ok. I can see there is no reasoning with your anti-management mindset. It doesn't matter if you are paid the next day or the next week, so long as you are paid. It still works out the same. THERE IS NO MONEY BEING STOLEN FROM ANYONE!!! Heck, if you really reason it out, except for that last week, you are getting paid SOONER for everything than you are now. (Your first new payday will be 4/13 instead of 4/15, the next will be 4/27 instead of 4/30, etc.)

If you can't understand this simple math, I hope you have a good FMS or you may not make your next crossing restriction.

 

[Fozzy]

Nothing wrong with a "anti-management mindset".
You gota keep a watchful eye on them. They would knock down old ladies to steal their retirement checks you know!
Or old pilots in our case.

 

[frmrBUFFdrvr]

Nothing wrong with a "anti-management mindset".
You gota keep a watchful eye on them. They would knock down old ladies to steal their retirement checks you know!
Or old pilots in our case.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be watched. But Simba's continued insistence that they are "stealing" (his word) 40 hours worth of pay from every employee when it is obvious that there is no difference in the amount of money someone gets paid is going beyond prudence.

 

[RNObased]

Someone needed to slap this guy down? Are you referring to me? If yes, then why would you make a statement like that? I find it amusing how absolutely no one can post anything on these boards without someone coming along and completely trying to make you feel like crap for your opinion. Opinions are opinions....everyone has one...if you don't like mine, say so and tell me why....but don't go insulting me in the process.

Relax slick,

Opinions are one thing, everyone has one and you can have your's all day long.

However you made broad, sweeping statements that you obviously have no clue about. Then when someone points out the errors in your ways you throw a fit. If you are indeed insulted by that; then I don't know what to say, maybe grow thicker skin.

Also it was probably the first time in many years that I have agreed with what family guy had to say.

 

[netjetwife]

Agreeing with Family Guy.... Could it be that we all share more common ground than you think.... Thicker skin? Been there, done that. It does help. I hope this finds you and yours well, RNO.

BGA, your difficulty with the business model seems to be rooted in your perspective. What appears a foolish extravagance to you is clearly a time-saving convenience to the owner who just considers it a cost of doing business. Remember, he who pays the piper gets to dance and it's rude for bystanders to complain about the chosen tune. It is smart business for the company to make investments to keep the clients and the pilots satisfied. Given the size of NetJets Inc they must be doing something right... Hence, the reason for RNO's frustration. Our own NJAOwner has made it clear that he is pleased with the value received.

Speaking of the gentleman... "Owner, my regards to you and your family. It is always gratifying to read your friendly expressions of appreciation and concern for the flight crews. Thanks for your patronage!
Netjetwife

 

[simba]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be watched. But Simba's continued insistence that they are "stealing" (his word) 40 hours worth of pay from every employee when it is obvious that there is no difference in the amount of money someone gets paid is going beyond prudence.

OK, maybe "stealing" is too harsh of a word for some people. Let's use the word "OVER-SIGHT".

Whether you see this "over-sight" or not will not change what I see or how I feel about it.

I am not the only one at the flag pole that has found this "over-sight". Numerous people (you'd be surprised at the number and job titles) discovered this issue on their own. Then these people talked amongst each other and compare notes. Some saw what you do. A few still do. Those recognizing that we are 40 hours short between Jan. and Jun. are working to get the pay policy changed. Most have approached their part of the management team. Some have approached H.R. directly.

If we are wrong, why hasn't G.M. sent out one of his award winning emails explaining our misinterpretation like he has done in the past?

 

[Galaxy]

I am with you Simba,
Call it oversight, call it metrics, or call it stealing. If in fact the actual take home pay was the same then why the change? Time has proven itself with those clowns in clowntown. Never-I mean never has the employees of FLOPS ever had a nice calm relaxed feeling when MS or GM come out of a meeting with the phrase " I have a great idea". Somewhere, somehow they are able to rob peter to pay paul with this stunt.
Time will tell with this stunt but I have lived through this twice before-when your pay date changes-get ready cause something is going to happen soon.
Good luck to all of you.
However my best advice is brush up that resume' and start looking for a better job-it shouldn't be that hard the way flops treats you.
I left and it has been the best thing that happened to me sice I got the job back when it was a great job. My how things change..Thanks Shawn Michael.

 

[400pilot]

Simba, we aren't paid by the hour. The total hours are irrelevant. For all you people that don't know any better, they don't take hours and convert it into salary, they take salary and convert it into hours for paycheck purposes. As long as you are paid the same amount, (which we will be), who cares what the hours say? Move on and find something that is actually an issue to address. Complaining about this makes us look uneducated and stupid.....

 

[simba]

Simba, we aren't paid by the hour. The total hours are irrelevant. For all you people that don't know any better, they don't take hours and convert it into salary, they take salary and convert it into hours for paycheck purposes. As long as you are paid the same amount, (which we will be), who cares what the hours say? Move on and find something that is actually an issue to address. Complaining about this makes us look uneducated and stupid.....

If you read any of my previous posts you would see that I said the exact same thing, "...they take salary and convert it into hours for paycheck purposes." And, YES, I know that the last week will roll-over to the second six months (it was factored in my caluculations). And, YES, I know that the last week of the year will be paid in the first check of 2008 (that, also, was factored into my calculations). Now look at the number of hours they are paying you in the first six months. It doesn't add up. I don't care if your a pilot, mechanic, or the chick that makes that crappy coffee - it doesn't add up. You will loose 40 hours of your salary.

"...Complaining about this makes us look uneducated and stupid...." however, I don't think that I fit into that catagory. I give up trying to explain this.

 

[400pilot]

Now look at the number of hours they are paying you in the first six months. It doesn't add up. I don't care if your a pilot, mechanic, or the chick that makes that crappy coffee - it doesn't add up. You will loose 40 hours of your salary

SO WHAT!!!! WHO CARES???

You only "loose 40 hours of your salary", if they take 40 hours of your salary in money.....WHICH THEY ARE NOT.

We won't get paid any less so who cares what the hours say? They can say 80 hours for the whole year, as long as I get my money.

Why you care about "phantom hours" that have absolutely nothing to do with our pay is beyond rational thought.

 

[HSDriver]

Payday

Ok, I sat down and figured how much money I would have in my pocket on the old pay schedule and the new schedule... Here are my findings:

End of April: More on the old schedule ( by a couple hundred)
End of May: More on the old schedule (by about 700)
End of June: More on the old schedule (by 1000)
End of July: More on the old Schedule (by 1200), three days later the NEW schedule is ahead by 750...
End of August: NEW schedule is now ahead by 300...
End of Sept: About the same...
End of October:New schedule is now behind by a few hundred bucks but I get paid a few days earlier than the old...
End of November: Old is now ahead by about 700 bucks (but I get paid a week later than on the new so it depends how you look at it I guess)
End of December: I will have more money in the bank on DEC 31 with the Old schedule by 1000. However...four days later the NEW schedule is 1000.00 ahead again.

My findings.... the change is insignificant. Paychecks are smaller. You get more of them. You will be ahead or behind of old schedule depending on the time of month that you take a snapshot...

Are they screwing with us? Possibly.
Is there some kind of sneaky metrics involved to make the payroll numbers look better on a certain day of a certain month? Possibly
Will they make mistakes in their favor during the transition. Probably
Will I catch them. Yes
Will I get my money back? Maybe, maybe not
Will it cost them the same if they steal from me? No, More.

HS