Flight Options new program!!

[sydeseet]

You know what I love about being a 121 pilot???? The comaradery and friendship shared between all the pilots; regardless of their company or background. I work for butthole airlines, inc. I jumpseat on about every major you can think of on a regular basis as I commute. I get nothing (okay, every now and again I get a jerk, but I usually win him over anyway) but friendly smiles and hearty handshakes followed by a very generous "welcome aboard" We don't flame each other, we don't compare how much money we make or what percent of the market our particular company is holding. Know why???? Because it doesn't matter. He's there and I'm here, it could very easily have gone the other way. A guy flying for United isn't any better than a guy flying for American - they both had resumes in at both airlines, fate just worked in a particular way.

I've been reading posts about the frax and am amazed at what jerks you guys are to each other. EJA vs. FO is about as substantial as East Coast vs. West Coast. Do you treat all of you fellow professionals this way????

You EJA guys with the big ego's. I got news for ya. 100 years ago Ford was revolutionizing auto-making. They were king; everyone was trying to model their techniques and their product. If you have noticed; for quite some time now they have shared the auto market with plenty of competition and it's is a VERY cut-throat business because of all the different options available. EJA isn't now, nor will they ever be, the only game in town. There are plenty of buyers seeking plenty of options (there's that word again) so just chill out.

Everyone else. Let's remeber that we all share a common dream, a common goal, and a common business. Brand X vs. Brand Y belongs on the boardroom table, let's leave it there.

 

[stingray]

I would like to see the pricing for all 5yrs of the deal to see what the true comparison is. Just something to think about.
Every frac pilot that I've met is respectful to me and me to them. Some of us are just amazed at one of the companies advertising practices. If you seen the adds you would understand!

 

[FracPilot]

"I would like to see the pricing for all 5yrs of the deal to see what the true comparison is. Just something to think about."

Go to the Flight Options website, it's all there.

"Every frac pilot that I've met is respectful to me and me to them. Some of us are just amazed at one of the companies advertising practices. If you seen the adds you would understand!"

I must admit that most pilots I run into on the road, regardless of company, are good guys/gals. Some have a major ego, most do not. Some of us are amazed at how superior some of the EJA folk think they are to everybody else, because EJA is "the biggest". Notice I said SOME, not all.

One question I have for you is.....how does Warren Buffet know exactly what situation(financial and otherwise) all the other fractionals are in? He MUST know, because he comments on it to the media. Specifics that he could know nothing about due to the fact that certain information is just not public.

 

[ArmyPilot]

Confusing

The new program is kind of confusing.

 

[Frac Daddy]

ArmyPilot,

Which part of the program do you find confusing?

Frac Daddy

 

[ArmyPilot]

Good idea

I think what Ricci has done is a good idea but I only wonder if in the end the pricing is virtually the same either new or old. If the pricing comes out the same why would you want to buy into the pre-owned when you will pay the same for new. I have not done my homework on what the price difference is but I am sure it is not much at the end of the day. The only reason I can think an owner would go into the pre-owned is once they retire out of the new program after 5 years?

I guess to sum up my confusion I would say that if I am going to pay more up front with less maint. cost or less up front with more maint. cost then why would I go pre-owned? Did I make any sense with that?

 

[ERJ - Jay]

I might be wrong, but here's what I see as the difference.

1) People who fly A LOT (1/2 to 1/4 share people)- want lower hourly rates, up front cost not a big deal because they're pretty well off anyway. So pay more up front, and have lower hourly costs. Makes that quick flight out to BFE more likely.

2) People who do not fly that much (1/16 people) - want all the perks of flying in their own plane (larger cabin w/ FA) can afford the lower up front cost of a used mid-size/large cabin (than a new one per say) and since they don't fly much the hourly rates being higher isn't as much of an issue.

I think the real difference is who is the customer?
What/how often are they going to be flying?

And most importantly, how do we differentiate (sp?) our RTA customers who bought "new" shares, and our existing FTO cutomers who bought a "used" plane because it was cheaper. This is a way to keep the original cutomers happy. Who knows though. It could also be that they're running out of good "bargins" on the used market, and have now decided that it would just be easier to offer new planes too since less "shopping" is required for the actual aircraft.

But what do I know.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Good point.

Armypilot,

Good point. When comparing new vs. used in the same airframe; why not just by the new airframe? You are assuming that it all comes out to be equal. A quarter share in a pre-owned Beechjet is 35% cheaper than a new one. The year one hourly operating cost is only 16% more expensive than the new Beechjet. The hourly operating cost of the new aircraft will increase until it equals the pre-owned aircraft in year five. The pre-owned aircraft is still cheaper. What we are doing is simply giving some relief to our new aircraft owners. Hope I was not too confusing. After all, I am just a rank-and-file pilot; not a CEO.

Frac Daddy

 

[EJA Capt]

I guess Ricci didn't think the one Netjets published LAST YEAR was unbiased enough.

They say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

PS...Take a guess where Options first SIIs came from.
PSS...Another guess where Avolar's HS125 came from.
Same answer for both.

 

[Jetz]

Dedicated crewing

I love the blurb about Dedicated Crewing...


"Does the provider use dedicated crewing? As in the military, certain providers maintain a policy whereby one captain always flies the same aircraft...not merely the same type of aircraft, but literally the same jet each timeout. The pilots are intimately familiar with their jets avionics, attitude and "feel" because thats the only jet they fly. This familiarity only further ensures the safety of each flight and the security and the comfort of those flying."

---How about a standardized fleet...dosent THAT contribute to safety in a way that dedicated crewing could NEVER do? How about each and every aircraft has the same exact equipment...all NEW equipment.

---and like the Military that dosent care about cost of operation, FO uses dedicated crewing. The military....home of the cost overrun...home of the bloated operating budgets...where no one is out to make a profit...

LEts face it, dedicated crewing is great if you fly a bunch of jalloppies or hundred million dollar fighter jets or bombers...but in airlines across the world, as well as the better fractional providers that fly a standardized fleet, dedicated crewing is not necessary for a safe operation. Not necessary, not practical, not even a very SMART idea.

Dedicated crewing is, in FO's specific case, an easy way for them to make sure they have a safe operation since EVERY aircraft has different equipment.

;-)

 

[Turbanhead]

one crew one airplane

That dosen't make much sense to do that, but I see why they do.

Question: Does flight opshions paint the pilot's names on the side of the airplane like the military does too?

How about mechanics? Is their one mechanic or mx crew per aircraft?

That would make even more sense.

 

[GVFlyer]

Re: Dedicated crewing

---and like the Military that dosent care about cost of operation...

The military's cares very much about cost of operation because they are habitually underfunded. The way that the military operates and what it does is the National Defence and Programs vision of the President, the House and Senate. The defence budget is originated by the Executive, reviewed by the Office of Management and Budget, and goes through three Congressional reviews, the last of which is line by line, before the military sees the first appropriation dollar. The final amount decided by congress as the minimum operating budget is usually further offset by entitlement spending such as Social Security and Medicare.

The military....home of the cost overrun...

The military manufactures nothing so cannot have a "cost overrun"; they do, however, cancel contracts with defence contractors who do - as it appears the Army is about to do with Boeing on the Comanche. As an interesting aside, when we were modernizing a facility at Andrews, we were used as an instrument of social engineering. Congressional guidelines forced us to use a "Small Woman Owned Business" for a portion of the work. This enabled us to pay nearly $2000.00 for an Insinkerater that we could have picked up at Home Depot for a couple of hundred bucks. The woman's business card actually had that phrase on it. She wasn't small, so the adjective must have modified the size of her business, but she knew that a certain percentage of military spending had to go to her type of business so she could gouge us (and you, by proxie) as badly as she wanted. Go figure.

home of the bloated operating budgets...where no one is out to make a profit...

Spoken like someone who has never had to meet a unit operating budget. The cliche phrase, "We have done so much with so little for so long, we can do anything with nothing", originated in the military. The military tries to operate at actual cost of operation with the exception of some MWR operations which generate a profit to cover their cost of operations so the taxpayer doesn't have to. If the military made a profit, they would be over-charging the citizens.

The military is a bargain if you view it in the light of the way of life they enable you to have...

 

[GooseHZ]

Whats the Deal?



Why are you EJA pilots jumping all over Flight Options so much?

Do you think that EJA has never done any slick ads or promotions?

For a comoany that is not any threat to EJA you guys seem bent on bringing up any bad news you can find.......its getting old.

You guys sell new....we sell used and new. There are lots of buyers to go around.......

What is USED anyway.......3 yrs 5 yrs old? Are any of EJA aircraft over 5 yrs old? If they are.... are your owners paying new prices for them? I bet they are......

I have been in MY aircraft for 4 mths...only when its down for long periods of time do i fly other planes.


Fly safe!!

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Hey Jetz, why are you so bitter about Flight Options? This is a civil thread until you jump into it. Did you not get hired? Did you not get an interview? Whatever it is, get over it. You've posted some pretty ignorant words here, and I'm sorry I wasted my time reading them.

Since our company sucks so bad and wherever you work is so great, be happy you aren't at Flight Options!! We have a great group of pilots to work with, and we don't need attitudes like yours around here anyway.

 

[Driver]

Jetz... I've read all your stuff... and I am sorry to say this .. but you are an idiot.... the only thing I want to educate you on the comment out the FAA certified captains... when you are trained in an aircraft which requires two pilots.. you can be trained as a PIC or SIC .. like in the airlines.. . those guys in the right seat are trained .. but not as captains..... it's called a type rating ... look in to it!

 

[Jetz]

Attitude

As to the comment about my attitude...

;-)

Is this a forum? ARe discussions and comments allowed, or are we only permitted to be pro- certain companies?

Guys, comments are comments. Sorry you take them so hard!

 

[Turbanhead]

Pilot with an attitude?

Oh, there are no pilots around here with an attitude or an ego... that would be just so unusual, would it not?

Jetz, I think you are missing the point. Flight Options is saying that they want all their pilots to be type rated. This does not mean that they are all REAL CAPTAINS, just real certified to be a capitain once they are QUALIFIED.

Agreed, there is not much difference between SIC and PIC training at the Flight Safety establishment. There is actually NO difference other than how much ink is on their license when they leave.

You have a point, though. The wording they use is silly. But stop trying to pick the fly shiite from the pepper.

-Turbanhead.

 

[jetwash]

Hey Turbanhead,

You seem to be taking lots of joy in aircraft accidents.

You must have been just laughing After American went down in Queen or when Swiss air , United , Alaska etc... all went down.

You shoud seek professional help you pathetic piece of S***

 

[FracPilot]

"Flight Options is saying that they want all their pilots to be type rated. This does not mean that they are all REAL CAPTAINS, just real certified to be a capitain once they are QUALIFIED."

Imagine this..the following comes directly from the Netjets website.

TWO CAPTAINS ON EVERY FLIGHT
FAA regulations don't require co-pilots to be type-rated in their assigned aircraft. But NetJets does. That means that all our pilots and co-pilots are certifiedto fly as captains in the one specific aircraft type they fly, whether they sit in the left or right seat of the cockpit.


Netjets claims there are two "Captains" on every flight. So that means that the company will dispatch an aircraft with ANY two pilots qualified in that type, since they are all "Captains", right? Oh, wait - that just means they are typed. Sounds like false advertising to me.

 

[EJA Capt]

"Flight Options is saying that they want all their pilots to be type rated. This does not mean that they are all REAL CAPTAINS, just real certified to be a capitain once they are QUALIFIED."

Netjets claims there are two "Captains" on every flight. So that means that the company will dispatch an aircraft with ANY two pilots qualified in that type, since they are all "Captains", right? Oh, wait - that just means they are typed. Sounds like false advertising to me.

Where is the false advertising?
It only claims they are CERTIFICATED as Captains, it never said they were operating/acting as Captains. Much the same as your response about FO LLC.