Flight Options loses more pilots to Gemini

[fogrunner]

I'm sorry you are so bitter. When Falcon 50 check airman leave what does that tell you.

We have hired 50 new-hires since September. 5 have been from Flight Options. that is 10%. People without any form of representation and no protection vote with their feet.

Who is going to represent you? ALPA wont.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Fogrunner, you are a trip. I am bitter for "looking before I leap" and putting resarch about Gemini?

I have completely agreed about representation...What union does GEMINI belong to? (more research) I am simply opposed to IBT

I repeat, re: IBT at NJA:
PILOTS are doing all the work...you just have an illusion of security "protecting" you. Kind of like the little kid on his bike for the first time without training wheels. He still thinks Daddy is holding on, and has the confidence to accomplish his task. Anything accomplished by NJA has been accomplish by PILOTS who are PAYING DUES to IBT, for the privelege of doing the work themselves. Flops needs representation, too...but not the kind found with the IBT. We'd like to add "feel treated like a professional by our company, (not seen as annoying blue collar labor) because we are represented as professionals by professionals. " THAT would be the addendum I look for.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

How many planes actually on the property, again? I can't seem to find where you answered that

 

[Voice Of Reason]

How Timely...IBT's other clients

Wal-Mart Wants Truckers to Have 16 Hour Workdays
By LESLIE MILLER, AP

WASHINGTON (March 9) - Wal-Mart and other retailers are lobbying Congress to extend the workday for truckers to 16 hours, something labor unions and safety advocates say would make roadways more dangerous for all drivers.

Rep. John Boozman, an Arkansas Republican whose district includes Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s headquarters in Bentonville, is sponsoring a bill that would allow a 16-hour workday as long as the trucker took an unpaid two-hour break. The proposal is expected to be offered as an amendment during debate over the highway spending bill on Wednesday.

"Truckers are pushing harder than ever to make their runs within the mandated timeframe,'' Boozman said. "Optional rest breaks will reduce driver layovers and improve both safety and efficiency.''

Current rules limit drivers' workdays to 14 hours, with only 11 consecutive hours of driving allowed, union leaders and safety advocates say. That gives truckers three hours to eat, rest or load and unload their trucks.

Critics of the proposal accuse Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, of trying to fatten its profits by forcing truckers to spend more time waiting at the loading dock without getting paid.

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters "hasn't gotten one complaint from drivers saying they don't have time for a break or a meal,'' the union's vice president, John Murphy, said at a news conference Tuesday.

Joan Claybrook, president of the safety advocacy group Public Citizen, said drivers could end up starting their workday at 8 a.m. and quitting at midnight.

"This is a sweatshop-on-wheels amendment,'' Claybrook said. "The last thing we need is for tired truckers to become even more fatigued and threaten the safety of those around them on the roads.''

The current rule had been struck down in federal court because it didn't take into account truck drivers' health. In October, Congress reinstated the rule for one year. If the Boozman proposal is adopted, it would retain the 16-hour workday regardless of any new rule.

Nearly 5,000 people were killed in large truck crashes in 2003, and those vehicles were three times more likely to be involved in fatal crashes than passenger cars, according to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration.

Wal-Mart spokesman Erik Winborn said the proposal has broad support among the trucking industry and other retailers.

"We support it because we feel it would actually enhance safety rather than hurt safety,'' said Winborn, whose company employs about 7,000 truck drivers.

Wal-Mart employees were Boozman's top contributors in 2003-04, giving him $48,152 for his re-election campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Wal-Mart and its employees gave $44,500 to Boozman for his first successful bid for Congress in 2001-02, the last year corporations could give to congressional candidates.



03/09/05 06:24 EST

 

[fogrunner]

I smell hijack!!!
What does Walmart truck drivers have to do with flying DC-10s or MD-11s?




touting it as the "coming savior." Companies don't change overnight, and the info I posted is not "old."


How can you say this is not old...

Who said anything about Gemini being a Savior..



http://www.faa.gov/apa/PR/SAFETY/Safety98.cfm

FedEx is on the list, does this mean you are not going to apply there because of this. How about Northwest, they are on the list as well.

We are an ALPA carrier....

Seven DC-10s and four MD-11s..

We currently have contracts with Air Canada, Lufthansa, Lan Chile to name a few.

Gemini's Top-Notch Flight and Ground Crew

Gemini employees are regarded as a key success factor for the company, which is reflected in the company'shttp://www.geminiaircargo.com/images/AboutU5.jpg compensation and benefits plan. The company's flight crews have an average experience of 12 years in military and commercial backgrounds and Flight Engineers are required to be trained line mechanics and hold A&P licenses. Line maintenance personnel have an average experience of over 15 years on heavy jet aircraft. The company insists on having specially qualified cargo loadmasters supervise the preparation of the aircraft for every flight.

Gemini offers the ideal solution for the high frequency markets of the domestic integrated services community, as well as Transpacific, Transatlantic and Latin America operations for its international airline customers.



I enjoy working here. I like the guys I fly with. I am treated well by our Flight Operations folks. I am no longer considered a new-hire.

I flew for Options for 5 yrs. One year as a BJ Capt. and another 4 years as an CIII Capt.
Your management people simply do not care about their pilot group. Are things perfect at Gemini certainly not. You will find plenty of people on this board with opposing view points to mine, concerning Gemini.

I still don't see how your postings concerning the IBT and Walmart truck drivers has anything to do with the original post?

 

[JohnnyCash]

i guess i have missed some of the points. it sounds like (to me-of course) that some are happy with FO and others are not. some have went to Gem. and are happy.

maybe i don't get it. if you are not happy where you are and are happy elsewhere what is the point. if someone were with say Northwest and decided they wanted to move the family to Puerto rico and fly sight seeing flights and are happy--what's the point. i say good luck to both. from my unrelated position both companys seem pretty good--hear good things about both.

johnny

 

[Frac Daddy]

I smell hijack!!!
What does Walmart truck drivers have to do with flying DC-10s or MD-11s?




touting it as the "coming savior." Companies don't change overnight, and the info I posted is not "old."


How can you say this is not old...

Who said anything about Gemini being a Savior..



http://www.faa.gov/apa/PR/SAFETY/Safety98.cfm

FedEx is on the list, does this mean you are not going to apply there because of this. How about Northwest, they are on the list as well.

We are an ALPA carrier....

Seven DC-10s and four MD-11s..

We currently have contracts with Air Canada, Lufthansa, Lan Chile to name a few.

Gemini's Top-Notch Flight and Ground Crew

Gemini employees are regarded as a key success factor for the company, which is reflected in the company'shttp://www.geminiaircargo.com/images/AboutU5.jpg compensation and benefits plan. The company's flight crews have an average experience of 12 years in military and commercial backgrounds and Flight Engineers are required to be trained line mechanics and hold A&P licenses. Line maintenance personnel have an average experience of over 15 years on heavy jet aircraft. The company insists on having specially qualified cargo loadmasters supervise the preparation of the aircraft for every flight.

Gemini offers the ideal solution for the high frequency markets of the domestic integrated services community, as well as Transpacific, Transatlantic and Latin America operations for its international airline customers.



I enjoy working here. I like the guys I fly with. I am treated well by our Flight Operations folks. I am no longer considered a new-hire.

I flew for Options for 5 yrs. One year as a BJ Capt. and another 4 years as an CIII Capt.
Your management people simply do not care about their pilot group. Are things perfect at Gemini certainly not. You will find plenty of people on this board with opposing view points to mine, concerning Gemini.

I still don't see how your postings concerning the IBT and Walmart truck drivers has anything to do with the original post?

fogrunner,

Voice-of-Reason is one of two things: FLOPS management or one of Raytheon's union-busting lawyers. He is attacking you because you remind those of us still at FLOPS how crummy it is. No pilot I know that has left FLOPS ever regreted it. Not one.

Also, his reason for dredging up all this negative stuff about Gemini is to project the message:"See they're unionzed and it's not any better for them. So why do FLOPS pilots need one?"

He also brings up the "anybody but the IBT" argument. This is the classic "phantom union" tactic to divide the pilot group. The reality is that nobody else will represent FLOPS.

V.O.R's motives are transparent and pathetic. Anybody that actually flies the line at FLOPS knows we need a contract and the IBT and ASAP are our only suitors.

 

[fogrunner]

Thanks Frac,

My intention was to welcome more quality guys to the Gemini fold. Yes, I like it here at Gemini. It is rather humorous for a thread to go from DC-10s to Walmart truckers.

 

[joepilot111]

Senority Freeze

Any truth to the info that I got that Gemini has frozen everyone in thier current pay level?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Expect more than a Walmart Truck Driver Does

fogrunner,

Voice-of-Reason is one of two things: FLOPS management or one of Raytheon's union-busting lawyers. He is attacking you because you remind those of us still at FLOPS how crummy it is.
V.O.R's motives are transparent and pathetic. Anybody that actually flies the line at FLOPS knows we need a contract and the IBT and ASAP are our only suitors.

OMG how pathetic that someone wants something better than the IBT and the IBT mafia swoops in with the standard accusations of "They're Management! Don't Listen". Some people can actually think for themselves, believe it or not. Sick. THAT's whats transparent and pathetic...Thou protestest too much and is projecting. If ever Flops makes someone SO miserable that they see the IBT as the only option, then yes, it IS time for them to leave. IBT is the LAZY (because it's "there") option, yet in the end, all of the work will be done by yourself.

 

[Frac Daddy]

OMG how pathetic that someone wants something better than the IBT and the IBT mafia swoops in with the standard accusations of "They're Management! Don't Listen". Some people can actually think for themselves, believe it or not. Sick. THAT's whats transparent and pathetic...Thou protestest too much and is projecting. If ever Flops makes someone SO miserable that they see the IBT as the only option, then yes, it IS time for them to leave. IBT is the LAZY (because it's "there") option, yet in the end, all of the work will be done by yourself.

If you're all for the FLOPS pilots picking their own union, why have you spammed this board today with anti-union and anit-IBT rhetoric? Why not just shut your mouth and let them "think for themselves"? Oh, thats right.....You get PAID to bust unions!

Name the other union that is eager to represent us. You can't.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

If you're all for the FLOPS pilots picking their own union, why have you spammed this board today with anti-union (WRONG YET again) and anit-IBT rhetoric? Why not just shut your mouth and let them "think for themselves"? Oh, thats right.....You get PAID to bust unions! (Keep telling yourself that...you'll see that I'm not the only one who thinks like this soon enough.)

Man, you seriously need some therapy...Lay off the diversion/scare tactics.Anyone who cares to can look up my posts and see how crazy you are.
If anyone gets paid for their venom it would be you. This is my last response to you so feel free to keep acting nutty....You've done it well on this board AND the other...and you seem to be posting to yourself on the other. Your rants speak volumes of your character, so I needn't be involved in back and forth childish jabs... I've said my piece. Carry on

 

[Frac Daddy]

Man, you seriously need some therapy...Lay off the diversion/scare tactics.Anyone who cares to can look up my posts and see how crazy you are.
If anyone gets paid for their venom it would be you. This is my last response to you so feel free to keep acting nutty....You've done it well on this board AND the other...and you seem to be posting to yourself on the other.

Nutty? No. Nutty is somebody spending all day in a cubicle looking up obscure, negative articles about Gemini Air Cargo just because somebody on a public message board implies that it is better than FLOPS. Venom? You say I am "nutty" and "need some therapy" and I am the one spewing venom? Uh, ok. I am posting to myself? I feel confident that anybody with IQ above 50 that reads this thread can see I am replying directly and rationaly to your posts.

And the REAL reason you won't continue to reply to my posts is that you can't answer my question. We have tried ALPA, TWU and an in-house union and these ventures either failed miserably or the union was not interested in us. So, I ask again.....What other union?

 

[fogrunner]

Anyone who wants to PM about Gemini or the ACMI sector in general go ahead.

This thread has been hijacked.

Yes we do have a pay freeze. New hires go to yr 2 pay on their anniversary date.

This issue, I have been told, will be re-negotiated on in about a year.

Professional Flight Deck crewmembers represented by the teamsters:





[font=Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Pilots[/font]

• ABX Air
• Air Transport International (ATI)
• Arrow Air
• Centurion Air
• Custom Air Transport
• Express One
• Great Lakes Aviation
• Gulfstream International
• Horizon Air
• Kalitta Air
• NetJets
• North American Airlines
• Shuttle America
• Southeast Airlines
• TransAir
• United Express (Great Lakes)
• U.S.A. 3000 Airlines
• U.S. Airways (Chautauqua)
• World Airways
• Zantop International

Hey Frac if you need any more info let me know.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

This thread has been hijacked.

Yes we do have a pay freeze. New hires go to yr 2 pay on their anniversary date.

This issue, I have been told, will be re-negotiated on in about a year.

Professional Flight Deck crewmembers represented by the teamsters:
[font=Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Pilots[/font]

• ABX Air
• Air Transport International (ATI)
• Arrow Air
• Centurion Air
• Custom Air Transport
• Express One
• Great Lakes Aviation
• Gulfstream International
• Horizon Air
• Kalitta Air
• NetJets
• North American Airlines
• Shuttle America
• Southeast Airlines
• TransAir
• United Express (Great Lakes)
• U.S.A. 3000 Airlines
• U.S. Airways EXPRESS (Chautauqua)
• World Airways
• Zantop International

The point of the list? To show that all of the above are notoriously low paid, except Southeast Airlines, who is not paid at all (out of business). Let me guess, IBT is "working really hard on all of them at once"? FYI, just because someone disagrees with the viability of the Teamsters does not make them management, and does not make for a "hijacking" of a thread...I spend MUCH less time on here than "Frac Daddy", (who seems to never have to fly at all, judging from the amount of posts/time spent on here and the RTA board) so there goes one theory. And I thought we never get time off? Also anyone who checks old posts is quite clear on the fact that I oppose both management AND IBT tactics. I love how "HIJACK" is screamed when someone wants a thread with a sensible, opposing view pulled by the mods, and confusion/word twisting is done to make people who hadn't read the actual post think I've said something else. Hmmmmm....Very "Sun Tzu" I must say Fortunately, the mods also have brains and can read, too....

 

[Voice Of Reason]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I post positive welcome aboard message to people who have successfully interviewed here. [/font]

I wouldn't call your opening post (or following posts)positive, since you couldn't do it without FLOPS jabs, could you? If Gemini really is the cats pajamas, why was that necessary, Mr. "Isn't this board only supposed to be about interviewing?" If that was the case this website would be pretty empty. There's a variety of information sharing, and if info is posted so that someone can make an OBJECTIVE decision about a place (being well aware of past problems) then that is a good thing.

You claimed that Gemini is ALPA...yet you said FLOPS could never get ALPA to represent them

You said there were what? SEVEN planes at Gemini? So WHY is it that you posted that FLOPS couldn't get ALPA representation?

 

[fogrunner]

You said there were what? SEVEN planes at Gemini?

No, I wrote Seven DC-10s and four MD-11s..

7 + 4= 11 not seven.

ALPA wont touch the fractionals. It has nothing to do with the amount of a/c you have.


The point of the list? To show that all of the above are notoriously low paid


ABX pay rates. Yea they look pretty low to me. (lol)



http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/abx/abx.htm


You need to verify your facts before you shoot from the hip.

27 guys left Flight Options in January. Close to the same amount for Feb. People are leaving as fast as they can. What does that tell you. Are you actually going to argue that you are well treated by your management folks.


Nuff said. Enjoy your life at FLOPS. Enjoy your time looking for articles about Walmart truck drivers, and seven year old Gemini FAA violations.

I ask again what does an article concerning Walmart truck drivers have to do with flying DC-10s and MD-11s?

 

[fogrunner]

Mr. "Isn't this board only supposed to be about interviewing?


NO, what I actually said was,

Remember this board was originally set up to pass on information on hiring and interview information.


Look at the sub heading for this section

Flightinfo.com Hangar > Aviation Interview Board


Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB.

 

[JohnnyCash]

i thought express one was long gone.

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks Frac,

My intention was to welcome more quality guys to the Gemini fold. Yes, I like it here at Gemini. It is rather humorous for a thread to go from DC-10s to Walmart truckers.

It's nice to see a positive post like this. I would love to fly the MD-11 myself... Good luck to the remaining FLOPS pilots.